CDNM38, fire extinguisher and convoy light

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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CDNM38, fire extinguisher and convoy light

Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:10 pm

Hi, I need information as to mounting the fire extinguisher. I have read where it mounts on the driver's side of the jeep outside; we have the four holes but ours is mounted between the seats. Can someone send a picture of the bracket so we can compare. Please use e-mail in the profile or click below.

Also need to know how the convoy light was intended to be activiated. Did the main light switch originally control it so that the driver could only use it with the switch for the Black Out Lights or as desired?

Thanks and Semper Fi Ben
Semper Fi Ben

Wes K
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Post by Wes K » Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:04 pm

Ben,
You must have forgotten Jacques Dorian's reply to these questions back in December. I'll transcribe them here for you.

"Hi Ben
Ok first, Ford (Windsor Ontario)did not built the Jeep, they assembled them at their plant and the year was 1952 in between february and december 1952 (Ooopps Correction for the date (month) They were assembled by Ford Canada in between February and NOVEMBER 1952.) Serial # 2135 was assembled the 27 november 52. Jacques Dorion . 2135 of them where assembled. Everything in or on the jeep is Willys. Differences: One data plate that says made by Ford Canada + contract# etc. The other one is the convoy light wich was added by the RCEME (Royal Canadian Electrical Mechanical Engeneering) something like that. The switch is located just below the hand brake handle and it says on it convoy light" The light itself is located inside the frame at the back (righthand side siting in the jeep) Once the switch was turned on it would shine on the differentiel cover and on the cover you had a letter like B or C or whatever. That way at night with the blackout in effect, the one following the jeep could see who is was following. I hope this help
Jacques Dorion M38 CDN # F-100655
ps:On the front top left part of the frame just behind the lifting hook there should be a number stamped there, that # is called CAR (Canadian Army Registration) That # should start with 52 (as of 1952 the year) the next one would be a - and after that a #3 meaning 1/4 ton or jeep for the army and after that 4 more #'s If somebody wants to add something more i will be happy to learn
As I said just before they are the same WILLYS jeep, NOT built but ASSEMBLED with Willys components and whatever Companies at the time (1952) under contract with Willys Overland to supply components ex: Autolite, Stewart Warner etc. M38CDN has the same starter, generator, distributor (autolite), the same Willys Motor with serial# stamped right behind the water pump, same first aid kit bracket, same seats, even the same bolts and nuts (According to Parts list SNL G-740). The ones that
came out with a winch had the same Ramsey Winch. The books and publications are the same (Parts list SNL G-740, TM 9-804, 804A, 804B etc) with a Canadian Supplements ( CDN- OM9- 804) tells you what to do in winter, like if we did not know about that. Same everything. IT IS A WILLYS MADE JEEP BUT THE PARTS WERE SENT to the Ford Canada Plant to be assembled THERE, put together THERE because Willys Overland could not keep up with the demand and the Canadian Goverment wanted them now. All M38 CDN were assembled in 1952 (Feb to Nov) There is NO parts with FORD script stamped on them. It is NOT a GPW or a Ford Jeep. it is a WILLYS I beleive there is some people out there not even looking at M38CDN because It was NOT MADE by Willys or MADE in the USA or it is a Ford jeep. WELL I think they are doing that out of ignorance, not knowing all the facts, ( I don't know all of them by the way but willing to learn) but this jeep was MADE BY WILLYS IN THE USA BUT ASSEMBLED IN CANADA.
Now here are all the differences that I know of When the Jeep came off the ASSEMBLY line at Ford Canada the only differences are the data plates. Warnings and decalcomanias are the same as far as I know

1) The "name, patent and serial# plate" on the inside of the body on the front of right rear fender well DO NOT EXIST on the M38 CDN
2) The "Responsible Agency Plate" DO NOT EXIST on the M38 CDN main data plates holder (on dash)
3) The "Vehicle Identification Plate" is a little bit different. That is where it says "Ford Motor Co of Canada" and at the top add CDN beside M38 and also WO/WN or W/WN (without winch or with winch) also that is where you will find the "serial # starting with a F- at 100000 and ending at F- 102135 plus delivered date etc
4) The "Caution Plate" is the same
5) The "Shifting Instruction Plate" is the same just add "With Canadian Supplement" at the bottom
6) The " Starter and Generator Plates" are the same
7) The "Shipping Data Plate" are the same excepted add CDN beside M38 and also WO/WN or W/WN
8) The "Vehicle Servicing Data plate" are slighly different ex: Tire Press 28 Psi as opposed to 25 Psi for US M38 After the Jeep left the Plant it was sent to a Canadian Army Depot (can't remember where) where it was "verified, checked" and also that is where the RCEME added the second difference to the jeep the "Convoy light switch and light" and also the Ramsey winch if it was going to get one (not sure about this) but not from Ford for sure. Like I said earlier on the board you would know who you were following and I beleive if you could see that letter on the back of the differentiel you were at the right distance. Also that is where they got the CAR # (Canadian Army Registration) wich is different from serial # Also the fire extinguisher on the M38CDN is located on the left front fender just above the little step. If you see for (4) drilled holes there, they are for the fire ext bracket If somebody wants to add or substract to this I will be happy to find out more and learn

The fire extinguisher (M38CDN) is mounted on the left front fender, 2 holes just above the step where the fender is attached to the tub and 2 more holes about 6 inches up from there. AS far as M38US I beleive it was mounted in between the front seats. I am sure there are poeple out there that can answer that question The only holes I know wich are close to that area (right step just before fender)are
1)shovel support bracket 2 holes + welded square nuts at the back
2)Fording hose support tube 2 holes + welded square nuts at the back
3)Axe support bracket 2 holes

Hi
Fire ext bracket location and measurements If you look at the top of the left front fender starting at the B/O light, follow the top until it start going down toward the little step, about 1 in. down from the top there is a seam there in the fender. That where I took the measurements
1)From seam down to top 2 holes 3 7/8 in. You could draw a horizontal line there
2)From seam down to bottom 2 holes 13 in. Same draw a line there
3) You should have 9 1/4 in. in between the top and bottom holes
4) In between top holes let say, there is 1 in.

If you center the bracket on those two lines and parallel to the exterior of the fender, you will be at the exact location If you go at the website below you will see a pic of an original M38CDN (never been touched) from Dave watson, Ottawa I believe in that pic you will see the fire ext location and fire ext Hope this help

http://www.steelpots.com/Jeep/jeepimages/watson1.jpg

Jacques

_____________________________________________________

Ben,
Hope this clears it all up for you.
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ3B, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, Bantam T3-C MVPA22099

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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Mon Jun 16, 2003 9:00 am

Hi Wes, thanks for your posting. Yes, I did forget about Jacques's posting and after checking, I had it saved. He has a lot of good information, but I am getting some conflicting views.

For the convoy light, he states that it is mounted on the right rear side of the frame while others have said that it is mounted on the driver's side left rear frame where in fact we have found two 1/4" holes but have yet to determine how to install the light so it will shine on the differential. We do have a picture on one installed on the right side but it doesn't look as if it was placed at any pre-stamped holes.

Jacques also states that the light shines on the letter A or C or some letter and we have been sent pictures where there is a just a white stripe that follows the contour of the convex surface of the cover where the ring gear turns.

At present, Skip's convoy light switch turns on the headlights and of course this needs to be changed when we install the convoy light. We are of the mind that this light can only be activiated when the BO main light switch is used, but we need to confirm plus it would be extremely helpful if we had the applicable wire numbers.

I think we have the fire extinguisher question cleared up by re-reading the posting you reminded me of and looking at the picture of it being mounted on the slant of the driver's side front fender.

Not trying to start a controversy, just trying to get it right. And, Wes, thanks for the reminder. Semper Fi Ben :?
Semper Fi Ben

Wes K
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Post by Wes K » Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:05 am

Ben,
It may help if you purchase the Canadian operators manual and the Canadian Parts Manual. There are two parts list. The early CV-31 covers M38 and the later CV-32 covers both the M38 and the M38A1. You can purchase them from this fellow.

alex blair <ablairca@yahoo.com>
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ3B, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, Bantam T3-C MVPA22099

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Remi
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Post by Remi » Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:01 pm

Ben,
If it can help, my M38-CDN have the 1/4" holes on the right side, the convoy lamp is missing. If you install the light on the driver side, the muffler will be between the diff cover and lamp....
Remi
Remi
M38-1952-CDN


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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:35 pm

Hi Remi, nice to hear from you again, and yes, you are right and my son called today and the lightening struck him as he suddenly realized the light would be closer to the differential housing than from the driver's side. Thanks for your imput. SF Ben
Semper Fi Ben

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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:41 am

Hi all, regarding the location of the fire extinguisher, my son just brought the following to my attention, on Page 21 of the CDN-0M9-804 'Operators Manual' is found: "Paragaraph 50 Fire Extinguisher a. Location. The Fire Extinguisher is located on the left side cowl." This appears to us to mean in the vacintiy of the outside mirror just under the windshield bracket and doesn't seem to be the same location that Jacques has detailed. Help!! :? Semper Fi Ben and Ben
Semper Fi Ben

Wes K
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Post by Wes K » Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:25 am

Ben,
I think I would put my money on the Canadian restorers opinion. You are well aware of the many erroneous entries in the early and late US M38 TM's. With the extinquishers being field installed units, the fender area is also very close to the side mirror. Jacques and the boys must have many actual in use M38CDN photos to work from. You have their email addresses. I'd give them a direct email asking the same question.
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ3B, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, Bantam T3-C MVPA22099

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SteveJ
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Post by SteveJ » Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:13 pm

Hi Ben

The Firex bracket should mount to the Left front frender as Jacques explained. Ive never seen one mounted on the cowl. Someone had brazed up the holes in the fender of my M38. I did some feeling around on the inside of the fender and I could feel where the holes had been covered.I just drilled them out and my firex bracket lined up perfectly.

I can send you a pic of it tomorrow evening if you wish.
Steve J
1943 Dodge WC52
1991 Reynolds Boughton RB44
1986 British Arrow 1.75 ton trailer
1986 Armstrong MT500 CDN motorcycle

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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:25 pm

Hi Steve, thanks for your come back. I have one picture but would sure appreciate one of yours for comparison. Thanks for you time. E-mail address should be be below or in my profile. Semper Fi Ben
Semper Fi Ben

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SteveJ
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Post by SteveJ » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:45 pm

Pics are on their way to you Ben.

Have a good one.[/img]
Steve J
1943 Dodge WC52
1991 Reynolds Boughton RB44
1986 British Arrow 1.75 ton trailer
1986 Armstrong MT500 CDN motorcycle

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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:27 am

Hi Steve, got the pictures and they are great and will be much help. Thanks very much. Semper Fi Ben
Semper Fi Ben

Andrew

light under pass side

Post by Andrew » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:35 pm

The convoy light was on the pass side and the switch was just below the E-Brake, with a small brass or whatever type plate with convoy, on, off on the plate, i'm pretty sure of this cause mine still has it all atached and working. I also have the light underneith my trailer with a switch just under the brake lever.

Andrew

light under pass side

Post by Andrew » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:35 pm

The convoy light was on the pass side and the switch was just below the E-Brake, with a small brass or whatever type plate with convoy, on, off on the plate, i'm pretty sure of this cause mine still has it all atached and working. I also have the light underneith my trailer with a switch just under the brake lever.

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Post by Wes K » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:53 pm

Andrew,
Interesting remark on the trailer. Did all the Canadian M-100 and M101 trailers have the convoy light and switch? Can you send me a few photos of your trailer's convoy light & switch installation?
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 60 CJ3B, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, Bantam T3-C MVPA22099

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