Bell Crank Difference?

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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ECVJeeps
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Bell Crank Difference?

Post by ECVJeeps » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:33 am

I have two M38 Jeeps in the shop at the moment and they have two different bell crank kits in them. One has a dust shield and one does not. This presents a problem when ordering repair kits.
I have looked in my manual and it shows the bell crank without the dust cap on the bottom.
I have one frame with a bell crank threaded for the dust cap and one without, they both have different kits installed.
I cannot find any reference to the bell crank with the dust cap.
One kit is longer than the other and they are not interchangeable due to one being too short!

Can anyone shed some light on the difference and what application they are for?

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Post by Wes K » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:50 am

That's interesting since all the M38 manuals and the early A1 manuals show the same bellcrank WO# 800867 ORD# 7375183 thru MD87061 then MD87062 and on and M170 use ORD# 7971881. Perhaps you have a late M38A1 bellcrank on one. :?
Wes K
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Post by ECVJeeps » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:00 am

Hi Wes

Here is a pic of the bellcrank with the dust cap I am referring to.

Image

I will take pictures of the other M38 that I have in the shop with the same
dust cap and I have one more M38 CDN in storage for a customer that I
can check to see which bellcrank is on his jeep. I will also check the ser.
#'s for each jeep.
My wife's frame that I am working on at the moment has no dust cap and
her bellcrank kit has a shorter bolt than the ones for the bellcrank with
the dust cap.

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Post by ECVJeeps » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:16 pm

Here are the jeeps that I have at my shop at the moment.

1950 CJ3A with the dust cap on the bellcrank
M38CDN CAR# 52-31925 Ser# missing: dust cap
M38CDN CAR# 52-31033 Ser# missing: no dust cap
M38CDN CAR# 52-30"848" or "747" It has been re-stamped
Ser# F-101"631" the last three numbers have been re-stamped also!: dust cap
M38 US Ser# MC 60093: no dust cap
M38CDN CAR#52-31933 Ser# F-102049: no dust cap

I am still wondering why some jeeps had the dust cap and some did not?
I am interested in finding the proper kit to go with each application?

The bellcrank with the dust cap has #647008 D12
The bellcrank without the dust cap has #647008 D17

Any takers on this one?

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Post by Wes K » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:23 am

647008 is the basic Willys PN for the bare bellcrank. The Dxx would be foundry information. Perhaps your dust cap units are an aftermarket service kit. The only differentiation used by Willys on their Universal Jeep M series and Cj's is the diameter of the pivot with early on CJ's and MB's having the smaller and later the larger. All the units you have obviously have the same diameter pivot since they use the same bare bellcrank.
Wes K
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Post by cmpman » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:52 pm

There was a variation in the M38s and M38A1 bellcranks. I recall an old CFTO detailing that if a winch was being installed, then the longer bellcrank would have to be installed to clear the PTO shaft. All the later M38A1s (Cdn2 and Cdn3) that I ever worked on while in the service had the longer bellcrank.

There was also a priority A modification to drill a hole, and install a castellated nut and cotter pin to the top bellcrank bolt. On some of the un-modified bellcranks, the nut would work loose and the bellcrank would fall down, fouling the steering, I see in your photo this modification is done. We were getting bellcrank kits in the mid 80s which did not have the hole drilled, and the shaft was so hard, even our machine shop could not drill through them. We would usually just re-use the old bolt.

With the longer bellcrank, if the little ball wasn't worn flat on the draglink end of the bellcrank, you can get away with just replacing the 2 bearings (torrington B188 if I recall) and flipping the bearing sleeve upside down so the bearings would ride on a new surface. This didn't work on the older short bellcrank.

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Further to my last.

Post by cmpman » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:50 pm

I came accross my M38/M38A1 Cdn parts manual, and it refers to replacing (when stock exhausted) the early bellcrank assembly (NSN 2530-00-737-5183/Willys pn 800867) with a later bellcrank (NSN 2530-00-333-3527 Willys pn 906296). Along with the bellcrank, you also had to order a bunch of other small parts including the cap 2530-00-333-3526 (willys pn 808436), the shoulder bolt 5306-21-107-1495 (pn 906396) and bearing, sleeve 3120-21-106-0245 (willys pn 906397) along with some washers and seals.
Since the 21 in the NSN indicates a Canadian stock number, it may be that the US did not use these particular parts. Normally when a part is used by both countries, Canada would use the US Nato stock number.
I could check the old Canadian NSN microfiches to see if these numbers did eventually change up to American, but with the manufacturers part numbers I have given, hopefully a supplier can decipher what you would need.

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Post by mrswrench » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:06 am

The NATO stock number system was the first move to make store keeping the same on an international level. NATO members agreed to maintain their military stores with the new system. The system was based on the earlier Federal stock number system and added the extra two digits after the first three digits to indicated which country actually produced the part. So the stock number "3120-21-106-0245 " is not actually a Canadian stock number. It is actually a NATO stock number which ID's a part produced in Canada and available in the NATO stores system for any user.
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Post by cmpman » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:59 am

I have to disagree with that it has to do with who produces the part. It is more of an identifier as to who introduced the part into the NATO stock number system. There is a lot of duplication in the numbers, and here in Canada, we seem to constantly be changing the Canadian origionated numbers over to either US or German origionated numbers. As an example, when we purchased a couple thousand 1-1/4 ton Chevy trucks in 76, we identified the parts with Cdn identifier (21) NSNs. When the US started to adopt the similar CUCV in the 80s, most of our stock numbers were cancelled and changed over to the US identified NSNs (usually post 1974 identifier 01) So even though we may catalogued the part first, and in many cases produce the parts (as in the case of the AVGP/LAV fleets) we end up using US identified part numbers.
I only brought up the country identifier to warn someone trying to use the "21" numbers as reference in quest for parts, that they are less likely to be recognised by dealers in the US.
As an aside, somewhere in 2003, Canada exhausted it's "21" supply of numbers, and has now adopted a new identifier (24). I believe the US has now (or soon will ) use the identifier 04, as it has used up the 00 and 01 numbers.

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Post by mrswrench » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:07 am

Looks like we both understand the system we just express it differently. Yes the semantics on my side were a little unclear. You are correct on introduced versus produced.

At any rate the more numbers one has to offer a surplus dealer the better chance of locating a part. I would submit both the FSN and Nato format stock numbers as well as any other part numbers I can find.

In you reference
we end up using US identified part numbers
do you actually mean stock numbers?
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Post by cmpman » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:30 am

mrswrench wrote: In you reference
we end up using US identified part numbers
do you actually mean stock numbers?
Yep.

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