What's the correct navy collor for '44 MB

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Remko
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What's the correct navy collor for '44 MB

Post by Remko » Fri May 27, 2005 5:27 am

Folks,

planning in restoring my 44 MB. if i don't find any original markings.... i'll probably make it a USN jeep (stands out from all the "O D" jeeps)

But what sould be the correct NAVY (USN) color for a '44 MB

OD frame, engine and drivetrain but

which color should the body be in, also which color tot use for markings / hood-numbers bumper (white markings i think) etc.
Remko

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Post by Bob N » Fri May 27, 2005 7:32 am

There was an article in the most recent issue of Army Motors, I believe, that dicusses this issue. Of course some USN jeeps were OD with a yellow paint markings...which is interesting. But the article mentioned gray paint...it had a specific name but I can't remember off the top of my head...but I want to say it was medium gray.
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Fri May 27, 2005 10:28 am

You don't say what color you are wanting to paint the jeep, Remko?

Would that be one of the grays or forest green?

David A. sent me a copy of the U.S. Navy Preventative Maintenance Program for Domestic Transportation Equipment (including jeeps) dated August 1944 he found at the Navy museum, in Port Hueneme, California.

I forwarded the infomation to Lloyd White and part of it appears in in an excellent article in Army Motors issue #111 on painting Navy vehicles that BobN mentions.

Now, as to what gray is specified, medium gray #123, I have not a clue. :?

My jeep was originally painted forest green, then repainted to gray with black marking and later a darker grey with white markings.

I would check with vendors like RAPCO, Beachwood and Army jeep Parts... compare samples and make a choice if you are going with gray.
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Post by lucakiki » Sat May 28, 2005 3:51 am

Mark,is that old SunderlIn article on Army Motors (MVCC)°3,jJune 1979,to be considered completely superseded?
Luca

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Whats the correct Navy color for 44 MB

Post by don best » Sat May 28, 2005 8:08 am

Remco- For what it's worth, while in the Navy from 44 to 54, our vehicles were a color called " Haze Gray ". It is a medium to light gray shade with possibly a hint of blue. I found a web page at..
www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/4289/camo.html
They show a color chart with camoflage colors and including, Haze Gray. On paper the colors are not as true as could be. To me, the color would be closer to between light grey and haze grey. Hope this helps a little and good luck on your jeep paint job.

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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Sat May 28, 2005 9:40 am

Lucakiki, that old article is still good for some items, just not for all. I talked to Bryce Sunderlin a few weeks ago and he is working on another article on the subject. Bryce is in agreement on there not being any evidence of gray painted at the factory on jeeps! :)

I think the N.S. blue gray was a color used for Navy planes, the Haze gray was used on ships... as were several other grays that made in onto jeeps. Sometime in the past I posted a site that had about 100 colors of Navy grey in various color schemes along with specifications from the Navy on painting everying from ships to equipment.

Cliff Tebeau is said to have a WWII era color chart that lists a gray paint along with two others, forest green and MC green. I have never seen the chart. I believe he is in Washington State? This may be the chart the Navy is refering to in the manual?
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Lee Bishop
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Post by Lee Bishop » Sat May 28, 2005 9:59 am

Mark Tombleson wrote:Cliff Tebeau is said to have a WWII era color chart that lists a gray paint along with two others, forest green and MC green. I have never seen the chart. I believe he is in Washington State? This may be the chart the Navy is refering to in the manual?
Cliff is in the Tacoma area, but has Alzheimers. He won't be of much help to anyone now, I've been told. Crying shame, as I got a lot of stuff off of Cliff when I first got my MB...
But at the risk of opening this can of worms again, some USN Jeeps were painted Army OD green, and had yellow serial numbers painted on them. My MB was used at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard during the war, and it was painted standard OD green, and had yellow numbers right behind the driver's opening.
Mind you, this was a Jeep that was signed over to the USN from the Army, and not from a USN contract, but it still shows that there were USN Jeeps in OD green!
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Post by Bob N » Sat May 28, 2005 10:52 am

Sorry to hear that about Cliff. He was always fun to talk to and often had some really neat parts.

The OD USN jeep that you mention sounds exatly like the one I posted here a while back and that was printed in MVM. The only difference is that the basic USA and Registration appear to be painted out in a block over in black and then painted in the yellow mentioned.
Image

and then a shot of the rear ....

Image

and note that this appears to be an early Ford based on the grille and the Ford script. Used by the Marines with USN registration.

for a more pictures and "analysis", see http://www.42fordgpw.com/usn_jeepk.html
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Post by FifthTeeTree » Sat May 28, 2005 3:58 pm

From this website:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... /simon.htm

They say that the color was:
Matt slate grey. This was the same colour as the aircraft were painted and the official name for this was Non-Spectacular Blue-Grey. The closest standard colour to this available in the US today is FS-36176.
Just something to throw into the mix. :)

*Spelling correction: Spectacular
Last edited by FifthTeeTree on Sun May 29, 2005 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Remko
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Post by Remko » Sun May 29, 2005 3:07 am

Thanks all,

great info thanks.....


gives a lot of interesting angles to the zolor OD or Grey... both went in service.. withe the navy...


When the tine is there... i'll let you guy's know what's it's gonna be

Thanks
Remko

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Post by petesilfven » Sun May 29, 2005 6:30 pm

It is non-SPECULAR blue-grey. Not criticizing, just may help do a search.
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Post by FifthTeeTree » Sun May 29, 2005 7:20 pm

petesilfven wrote:It is non-SPECULAR blue-grey. ...
:lol: LOL. I thought it was misspelled. :roll: Non-spectacular though is a good description of a Navy-colored jeep, to me. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Sun May 29, 2005 10:00 pm

This is why it is so hard to figure out what color is what. :lol: :lol:

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/h ... rcraft.htm

United States Naval Aircraft Painting Practices

by Jeff Herne

US Navy aircraft in 1939 carried a color scheme dating back to May 1925, requiring aircraft to be painted Overall Aluminum, with upper wing surfaces painted Orange Yellow 614. Hulls and floats of seaplanes were painted Non-Specular (flat) Light Grey 602. This scheme was used until December 1940, when all ship-based aircraft were painted overall Light Grey 602. Patrol aircraft wore overall Non-Specular Light Grey 602 except for surfaces viewed from above, which were painted Blue-Grey (FS 35189) * .

Two months prior to the Pearl Harbor attack, orders came down requiring all USN and Marine Corps aircraft to be painted overall Non-Specular Light Grey 602 except for upper surfaces, which were painted Blue-Grey (FS 35189). On aircraft with folding wings, the portion of the wing viewed when folded was also painted Blue-Grey. This scheme was to remain until February 1943, after which time the tide of war had turned against Japan.

The Non-Specular, or Three-Tone, scheme appeared in February of 1943. Orders required all upper surfaces be Non-Specular Sea Blue 607, with Non-Specular Intermediate Blue 608 being applied to fuselage sides, vertical tail surfaces, and rudder. Undersurfaces were Non-Specular Insignia White 601. On aircraft with folding wings, the portion of the wing viewed when folded was painted Non-Specular Intemediate Blue 608.

In late March 1944, colors from the 1943 Three Tone scheme were changed from Non-Specular to Glossy. The exception to this rule was fighter aircraft, which were to now carry Glossy Sea Blue 623 overall. Non-Specular Sea Blue 607 could be substituted in areas where it was necessary to protect the pilot from sun glare.

By October 1944, the 1943 Three Tone scheme was dropped from all combat aircraft, including torpedo and dive bombers. This was replaced by the earlier March 1944 fighter scheme calling for Overall Glossy Sea Blue 623. The exceptions to this rule included Seaplanes, Transports, Helicopters, Patrol, and Observation aircraft, all of which retained the earlier Non-Specular scheme of February 1943.

Other schemes of interest were the two applied to Anti-Submarine and Patrol aircraft operating in the Atlantic. Although orders dictate these schemes were to be used in areas where there was no enemy air opposition, evidence seems to point to the fact that this scheme was rarely, if ever, used in the Pacific Theater. Aircraft carrying Scheme I had upper surfaces sprayed Dark Gull Grey 621, fuselage sides Light Gull Grey 620, and all undersurfaces Glossy Insignia White 601. Side surfaces in the shadow of wings and tail were to be sprayed Non-Specular Insignia White 601. The inside of engine cowlings, prop domes, and prop blades out to the inner edge of the cowl openings were to be sprayed Non-Specular Insignia White 601. Scheme II replaced all Non-Specular white with Light Gull Grey 620. It should be noted that Lt. Gull Grey 620 has the same FS# as Light Grey 602 (FS#36440).

In December of 1944, an addendum was made to the October 1944 order, requiring all land-based patrol to carry Semi-Gloss Sea Blue upper and lower wing surfaces and horizontal tail, with Non-Specular Sea Blue being carried on fuselage and vertical tail.

* While Navy Blue Grey had a Spec. 3-1 number, it was intended to be superceded by RAF Extra Dark Sea Grey, and did not recieve an ANA number. By the time the ANA system was adopted in June 1943, Non- Specular Blue Grey had been removed from USN aircraft in favor of the Non-Specular Sea Blue and Intermediate Blue (2/43). In the case of Navy Blue Grey, the FS# appears in place of the ANA or Spec. 3-1 listing.
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Post by lucakiki » Mon May 30, 2005 5:08 am

Mark,
as most of us know, there are quite a few USN jeeps pictured in WWII pictures,in what is almost certainly OD drab. And we also know that no jeep left the assembly line in other than OD or Forrest green.
The Navy GTBs,or some of them,were painted from factory in that grey,and Sunderlin mentioned that NOS parts were found , finished in that colour. So my take is that,this shade of paint (non specular navy blue grey) being available,an untold number of jeeps could,just could, have been repainted in that colour when and if the original delivery O.D. was painted over in some grey. Something confirmed by some veterans. More so if we take on account how this practice was often performed in a hurry,following very unofficial procurement channels.This consideration obviously leaves out Pink jeeps,wether or not fitted with mauve QMC marked pumps.

Dave,
that site you linked owes a lot,including drawings, to that old Army Motors article by Bryce Sunderlin that I mentioned in my post.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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color

Post by Warren Duchesne » Mon May 30, 2005 5:56 pm

that jeep in the picture has a white combat wheel tag . Warren


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