Hood number estimation

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Crasher
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Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Sun May 08, 2016 7:59 pm

I currently have a '44 Willys under restoration and in trying to ascertain an approximate hood number. The frame tag is missing, though I know it's probably a late '44 or early '45, but I do have the body number, which is 109306 on a later type Willys tub. I figured I would go with a hood number that matches the tub, since that's the only thing I have to positively date it. I believe the tub dates to late July of '44, am I right? An an approximate hood number of 20619XXX, is that about right?

Thanks for your help!
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Mon May 09, 2016 1:55 am

Hello Crasher,

Does the body that you have show to have had the rotary type headlight switch ( two holes - one above the other ) ? Is the serial number data plate just missing or is the entire glove box door missing ? What is the motor data ( type, serial number, casting date, etc.) ?

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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by sjalbert » Mon May 09, 2016 5:52 am

If it's an ACM2 tub then it should have the holes for the rotary type headlight switch. Your tub number falls between the two I've listed below that are from http://web.archive.org/web/200305131137 ... /articles/

362903 8/12/1944 106169
365810 8/24/1944 112231

I don't have any hood numbers in this range
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Mon May 09, 2016 8:11 am

It's an ACM Type II body. I actually don't currently have the jeep in my possession, it's under restoration by Tonka Jeeps up in Minnesota, should be finished in August. I wish I could do it myself, but I'm afraid I don't have the time or the facilities to do anything more than small repairs and maintenance, so I had Wally take care of it for me.

Tom, the serial number data plate is missing, but I believe the glove box door is there, I'll have to check with Wally. Motor is a wartime Willys generator engine, late war, obviously a replacement. This is a pieced-together jeep from several other jeeps, so the frame, body, and engine won't be original to each other, unfortunately. Hence why I figured I'd go with a hood number that matches the body, vs the frame or engine. Is there something on the glove box door I can look for?

Thanks for the leads, Seth! Do you happen to know if this chart I've attached a link to below is at least mostly accurate for the hood numbers? If it was delivered between Aug 12th and Aug 24th (somewhere around Aug 18, if my calculations are correct. Oddly appropriate. Exactly 65 years to the day before I entered active duty with the AF!), that would put the hood number at approximately 20628220.

https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPMBUSA.html

Here is the chart from the same sight, from which I approximated the date of the body using the body number 109306.

https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPBodynumbers.html

These are obviously more rough numbers, and made me think it was July of '44, but you have some good examples of jeeps with delivery dates, so I trust the examples you've given to be more accurate.
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by sjalbert » Mon May 09, 2016 8:54 am

Based on the data I've seen Robert's body numbers are an estimate of the last body number in a given month. Hood numbers are a little more complicated. You have to account for the fact that Ford & Willys were assigned different number ranges. Robert's numbers in the relevant timeframe appear to be in sync with the starting hood number for the given month. My mid July '44 MB has a confirmed hood number that falls between his July & August numbers.

I believe that your estimated hood number does fall in a Willys contract. Tom do you have any August hood numbers that can help guide Crasher?
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Mon May 09, 2016 9:14 am

Hi Seth,

I only have one Aug., '44 dated hood number. MB 357059, 08-02-44, USA 20618685.

Using a date of Aug. 18, '44 I estimate figures of about MB 361259, 08-18-44, USA 20622885.

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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Mon May 09, 2016 10:46 am

Awesome, thanks so much for y'alls help, Tom and Seth! I'm brand new to the jeep scene, so I'm doing a lot of studying when I can. I've been into WWII militaria collecting and living history for a while, but this is my first foray into vehicles (unless you count my '44 Dayton-Huffman bicycle), so I appreciate the help of you experts. Thanks!

Casey
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Mon May 23, 2016 2:22 pm

Another question for you guys - I understand that the Ford and Willys hood number ranges are different blocks assigned to them. This composite body does not have any of the identifying accessories on it that would peg it as a Willys, necessarily, but since it was originally going to go on a Willys frame I thought a Willys-range hood number would be appropriate. It now looks like it may get put on a GPW frame, and being a composite body, I'm wondering if I should just put GPW pieces on it. With the same body number, do you happen to know what the closest GPW hood numbers might be? I think we determined the DoD to be approximately 8-18-44.

It will be a franken-jeep, I know, but it'll be mine and it'll be original, as best as I can get it.

Thanks a bunch!
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by rjbeamer » Mon May 23, 2016 3:47 pm

Does the GPW frame have a GPW number. Having the GPW number might help in guessing.

Roger

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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Mon May 23, 2016 4:30 pm

GPW Frame number is 141760. In wartime, would the hood number have corresponded to the body, or to the frame number? I.e. If a depot put a new tub on an older frame, would they have repainted the hood number to relate to the frame, or would it retain whatever hood number was on it already? Therein lies my dilemma. A late '43 frame wouldn't have had a composite body from the factory, so I either have to put a hood number that relates to the frame or the body (the number for the latter is 109306, ACM type 2 composite).
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Mon May 23, 2016 5:28 pm

GPW Frame number is 141760. In wartime, would the hood number have corresponded to the body, or to the frame number? Neither - the hood number for GPWs related to the assembly plant and the daily production volume. I.e. If a depot put a new tub on an older frame, would they have repainted the hood number to relate to the frame, or would it retain whatever hood number was on it already? Retained the original hood number. The hood number was the Government serial number so it did not change when parts were changed on the vehicle.
A clear photo of the complete frame serial number stamping is needed to estimate a GPW hood number.

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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Michael O. » Mon May 23, 2016 7:32 pm

Is your restorer restoring the original tub or simply placing a reproduction body on it?
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Tue May 24, 2016 1:59 pm

See below, Tom. Maybe you can enlighten me - was the stamping style unique to a particular factory or serial number block? Also, you mentioned that the hood number remained the same if they put a newer tub on an older frame. Thus, should I still look for a hood number in the vicinity of Aug 18 44 in order to be as historically correct as possible (for having a tub and frame with mis-matched dates)? Or would you recommend ignoring the fact that the tub is a later tub, and just going with a hood number that corresponds to the frame s/n?

Michael - he's using an original tub, but not the one that matches. It is a later ACM Type 2 composite from approximately Aug 18 44, according to the number on the toe board gusset.

Here's the frame number. As you can see, someone has written in a sharpie below it to copy the number, but hopefully this gives you what you need to know.
Image
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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by rjbeamer » Tue May 24, 2016 2:30 pm

IMO. No mater what you do in the end it is going to be a jeep salad. If you are going to call it a GPW for registration then I would use a USA number that fits the frame.

Roger

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Re: Hood number estimation

Post by Crasher » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:53 am

Would anyone have a lead on how to figure out the plant it was made in?

Thanks!
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