Clutch adjusting issue ..........

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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William
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Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by William » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:03 am

Hi all ,

i just replaced my broken clutch disk and have some major problems now ....

* the flywheel is straight and balanced

* the pressure plate and clutch disk are NOS

* I adjusted the fingers @ 21.43mm ( 27/32" ) to the face of the pressure plate

* i adjusted them then fine with a dial clock at 0.10

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* i replaced the slightly used GPW clutch bearing carrier by a NOS WOF one

* the fork is also a NOS WOF one

* the bearing is an AETNA 2013

* clutch cable is also NOS

So far , so good i tought ..... :roll:

So i installed my engine back and adjusted the cable / pedal to 1 1/4" play

Started the engine , engaged the clutch pedal ..... can't shift !

To make the story short , i had to adjust/screw the cable till the end of the thread in its yoke and the bearing racing face toutches the fingers of the pressure plate. Only then it shifts like a dream ......
But it isn't normal and as there isn't any play , it isn't good !

So i will pull the engine back out and restart .

My question is : what's wrong ????

The only things that differ and what i changed are the adjusting of the clutch pressure fingers to 21.4mm ( they were at +- 20mm before ) , and i changed the GPW bearing carrier and clutch fork by a NOS WOF one .

I also noticed that there is a "fork/surface" hight difference between the carriers . The WOF (left) is lower than the GPW , and the GPW is lower than a reproduction .... Could this be (the) a cause / reason ? The lever/torque angle change ...no ?

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Last edited by William on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:23 am

The Sleeves are fine they are not your problem. New parts should not need adjusting. Is the disk installed backwards? The short side of the hub should be toward the flywheel. Are you using original flywheel nuts, bolts and washers. The washers should be External Tooth, if the nuts are too thick and split lock washers are used, the center of the clutch disk can contact the nuts. Also, time may have taken a toll on your disk if it was stored in a damp location for too long.
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Last edited by Joe Gopan on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Mark Baker » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:10 am

Did you notice the shipping clips on the clutch fingers?

I think you may have left them on....
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Bill M » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:26 am

Clip.jpg
Clip.jpg (5.87 KiB) Viewed 2321 times
Mark, I believe that clip if that is the one you are referring to is a "Return Clip" and is part of the functional assembly.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by artificer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:33 am

I agree new & rebuilt clutch pressure plate should not need fingers adjusting.
Where does1.25" come from?
This is what I would do....
Inspection plate off bell housing
Set clutch cross shaft using any adjustment from pedal to cross shaft so both ears are vertical.
Now adjust the ear throwout cable to throwout carrier so that with the engine running you can see, with a flashlight, the throwout bearing is close, to the fingers but still stationary.
& not moving if the engine speed is increased.
How are things working for you now?
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by JD136 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:58 am

1.25" clutch pedal free travel is too much.
Where did you get this information?
3/4" clutch pedal free travel is what the manual recommends.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:44 am

I'm not sure that the linkage adjustment is at fault here....however there IS one more item in the linkage that can effect the throw of the fork/TO bearing carrier.....that is the pivot ball on the front of the T84.

Some are "longer" than others and will require an adjustment of the clutch cable if you swap out a T84 with a different length of pivot ball.

Perhaps the NOS French pivot ball is a different length than the WO version? If the French also did some slight adjustments to the linkage components (you have noticed there are some slight differences on the carrier....) then perhaps the difference you have can be traced to the pivot ball.

I do not have any French clutch cables to check, but perhaps they too are a slightly different length than the original WO cable?

I would go back to getting the linkage set up correctly as artificer says and get the clutch tube installed with the ears VERTICLE and then check to see if you can get the clutch cable installed so that you have 3/4" freeplay before the TO bearing engages the clutch.

Check this with the inspection cover on the bellhousing OFF so you can be sure that:
1) the TO bearing is not dragging on the clutch fingers and turning with the motor running
2) the TO bearing is disengaging and the disc is coming to a complete stop when the clutch is depressed

In other words...I do not think the pressure plate is the cause of the problem....something in the linkage system is not right in my estimation.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:57 am

It ain't French that is the problem, French balls are same ting, search 630068 on G-503 for Joe Friday factory spec on the 630068 Ball proper noun, "fulcrum".
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by artificer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:59 am

joel wrote:It ain't French that is the problem, French balls are same ting
???
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by cjv-35 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:55 pm

1.25 free pedal adjustment is what is in the tech manuals for the CJV-35/U and M-38 models. I no longer have the jeep universal manual to check what that denotes.

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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by tamnalan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:01 pm

artificer wrote:
joel wrote:It ain't French that is the problem, French balls are same ting
???
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:29 pm

Are you following this William? :wink:
It might be as simple as the disk being installed backward.
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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by artificer » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:43 pm

The TM suggests 3/4" free travel @ the pedal.
Some folks learn the hard way that one can get a false sense of security using this method & it is still possible the throwout bearing is continually turning. This leads to early failure.
The suggested visual check thru the bell housing inspection plate ensures you have adequate free travel.
One always checks the EZ stuff first & eliminates them as the possible problem before getting into the meaty alternatives.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by William » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:10 pm

If the pedal play is 3/4 or 1 1/4" , this isn't the reason of my problem .

Of course i'm following this Ben and it isn't the first clutch disk i'm installing :D , so no , of course , not installed backwards .
Also nothing wrong with my flywheel nuts bolts or washers .

Sunday i will lift my engine out again ..........

Chuck , the pivot ball ........ i also tought about that ! I changed the carrier and fork by WOF ..... If a WOF pivot ball is longer than an other one , the lever/lifting movement is different ......


To me , there can't be 2 reasons ...... or like Gindi said , the clutch disk ( rust / swollen or distorted ) , or difference WOF carrier/fork / ballstud setup .

Al the rest i din't changed and once again , i had to adjust/screw the cable till the end of the thread in its yoke and the bearing racing face toutches the fingers of the pressure plate. Only then it shifts like a dream / clutch disk stops ...... So when i look thru the bell housing inspection hole , i just see what i hear from under neath ..... that the racing face of the bearing toutches the fingers . Only then i can shift easely and the clutch disk stops when i depress the pedal .


About clutch cables ...... i have 6 and none are the same lenght , but this isn't an issue .... Also know that some are really "elastic" :|

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Re: Clutch adjusting issue ..........

Post by artificer » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:09 am

OK
Have you the clutch cross shaft in the right way round?
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


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