Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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macaddict23
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Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by macaddict23 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:32 am

I've searched several old posts here, and I found these two helpful links:

http://www.sacarr.co.uk/mymvs/jeep/m201mb/m201mb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://willys.be/index.php?option=com_c ... p&Itemid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notch or no notch on the dash, curved vs angular braces, reinforcement plates and no reinforcement plates along the front frame rails, etc. Would you say that the surest way to know if a tub is hotchkiss is if the body number is located on the firewall above the fuel filter? And surest way that a frame is an MB is to look for the two frame plate mounting holes?

Thanks!
Dex
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by Navarre » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:04 am

They missed this important difference:


Image

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by macaddict23 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:09 am

Thanks, Navarre!
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by Navarre » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:08 am

You´re welcomed.
I owned a 1961 M201 during one year (until I traded it for a GPW) and I know these M201 tubs very well.
There is another difference never mentioned in the MB-M201 differences sites.

I have not pics at the moment, but here you are a drawing showing a difference that dont used to be corrected by the people who try to transform M201 tubs into MB featured ones.
Image

Hope it helps.
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by macaddict23 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:17 am

Thanks again! How about the difference in frames?
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by Navarre » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:27 am

Pease, check this link:
http://www.m201.com/chassis/chassis.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Resto thread: viewtopic.php?f=144&t=198728

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by rsjon » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:09 am

I would say no to the question about the body no above the fuel filter.
I had a Hotchkiss tub with no number as above; I suspect it was an early tub built under licence before Hotchkiss started making truly their 'own' tubs in about 1955.
Another feature (which my tub also didn't have) is the starter button on the dash.
Also, don't forget the L shaped reinforcements on the side grab handle mounts (forward mounts), and the absence of holes for the 1/2 doors.
I think it's a real minefield!
I emailed Daryl (he of the body feature graph!) to ask if he would mind if I did a similar graph for Hotchkiss tubs.
Unfortunately, he never replied. :cry:
I still think this would be a worthwhile exercise but I don't think there is that much interest as there are so few Hotchkisses in the US.
Jon.
GPW Frame: 47496 Tub: 47496 Engine: GPW47496 DOD: 13 July 1942
GPW Frame: 63910 Tub: 63910 Engine: GPWJuly1945 DOD Sept 1942 Under construction!

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:37 am

Another feature of the WOF M-201 body is that the holes at the rear corners for the antenna brackets are punched at the factory. Some have the boxes in the rear floor for the shock absorbers in a different location.
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by macaddict23 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:12 am

rsjon wrote:I would say no to the question about the body no above the fuel filter.
I had a Hotchkiss tub with no number as above; I suspect it was an early tub built under licence before Hotchkiss started making truly their 'own' tubs in about 1955.
Another feature (which my tub also didn't have) is the starter button on the dash.
Also, don't forget the L shaped reinforcements on the side grab handle mounts (forward mounts), and the absence of holes for the 1/2 doors.
I think it's a real minefield!
I emailed Daryl (he of the body feature graph!) to ask if he would mind if I did a similar graph for Hotchkiss tubs.
Unfortunately, he never replied. :cry:
I still think this would be a worthwhile exercise but I don't think there is that much interest as there are so few Hotchkisses in the US.
Jon.
Dang, it just got more complicated. Lol! Okay, what if it has the body number stamped on the toeboard gusset, as on all standard MBs?
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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by Navarre » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:03 am

rsjon wrote:I would say no to the question about the body no above the fuel filter.
I had a Hotchkiss tub with no number as above; I suspect it was an early tub built under licence before Hotchkiss started making truly their 'own' tubs in about 1955.
Another feature (which my tub also didn't have) is the starter button on the dash.
Jon.
Why do you know it was a Hotchkiss tub?
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Ford GPW 86534 DoD 12-11-42...in progress!
Resto thread: viewtopic.php?f=144&t=198728

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by rsjon » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:34 am

A very good question!
It had no cut out on the dash; switch holes matched a Hotchkiss, it had a seperate piece on the corner of the rear wheel houses and various other small features.
I am sure that ALL the features known to be on a Hotchkiss tub are only on the ones they completely made themselves (ie their improved version from about 1955 onwards).
Earlier tubs had some features but not others, eg floor starter switch was only on the first ones (i think!).
If somebody thinks I am wrong or can clarify further, please shout out!....I really want to know! :o
Jon.
GPW Frame: 47496 Tub: 47496 Engine: GPW47496 DOD: 13 July 1942
GPW Frame: 63910 Tub: 63910 Engine: GPWJuly1945 DOD Sept 1942 Under construction!

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by rsjon » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:39 am

Mac, just read your post.
If it has an MB style no on the toeboard gusset I think it is a 'recycled' WW2 tub, done after the war.
My tub may have had similar but somebody had replaced the front floor so I don't know!
Jon.
GPW Frame: 47496 Tub: 47496 Engine: GPW47496 DOD: 13 July 1942
GPW Frame: 63910 Tub: 63910 Engine: GPWJuly1945 DOD Sept 1942 Under construction!

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by thidisbogus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:17 pm

Interesting thread. Thanks to all who are posting....

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by raptor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:25 pm

macaddict23 wrote:I've searched several old posts here, and I found these two helpful links:

http://www.sacarr.co.uk/mymvs/jeep/m201mb/m201mb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://willys.be/index.php?option=com_c ... p&Itemid=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notch or no notch on the dash, curved vs angular braces, reinforcement plates and no reinforcement plates along the front frame rails, etc. Would you say that the surest way to know if a tub is hotchkiss is if the body number is located on the firewall above the fuel filter? And surest way that a frame is an MB is to look for the two frame plate mounting holes?

Thanks!
Dex

Sorry ,
But no notch and angular braces are also early willys .
The best way to spot a HWOF body is to scratch a nail over the green paint and see if you see RED or Yellow.
Red wasn't used as undercoat by the french ,Yellow is.

If you shine a light into the dashboard (behind the door) you can see the HWOF bodynumber (if the tub is transformed into a WWII one )

The chassis is more angular and under the front tube it has an arrow point and a WWII Willys chassis its a T shape.

There are a lot more ,but my english isn't to good to translate my dutch.

Kind regards René
WILLYS MB S/N 152669 June 19 1942 with ACM1 TUB S/N 54083 with WILLYS script back panel (Restored October 2012)
FORD GPW S/N 259933 May 10 1945 (frame section and dataplate) SOLD

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Re: Another Willys/Hotchkiss difference post

Post by macaddict23 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:04 pm

Thanks Rene. What about a Jeep with curved braces, with dash notch, MB-style toeboard gussets, and no number stamped on the firewall above the fuel filter? Did all versions of the Hotchkiss Jeep have the body number in this area of the firewall?
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