ACM Tub Number Ranges?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Chuck Lutz
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ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:18 am

Being an early GPW guy, I am not up on all the intricacies of the ACM tub numbers so I wonder if you guys have any info on this....

Does anyone have any information on the ACM numbers on the tubs with regards to the LOWEST number found? Did they begin with 0001 or did they begin with 1000?

I know that Willys chose to begin the MB numbering scheme with 100000 so that the first serial number would be 100001....but what did ACM use to begin the numbering scheme for the original and later tub designs?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by r40ford » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:50 am

Chuck,
I have what Tom W. believes is an early Feb 44 Louisville GPW with ACM II body 7062. If they numbered starting at 0001or 1000 for ACMII bodies that would fit in. I can't answer for anything else. If someone has an ACMII body with less than 1000 on the body number lets hear from you. I do believe this tub and frame were original to each other, (pal nuts still on body bolts). Highly unlikely if BUBBA had removed body that pal nuts would have been put back on.

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Jim Kilbourne
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Jim Kilbourne » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:43 am

ACM Tub numbers:

Willys MA begin at 1 and are generally the 'type I' tub...about 1555 tubs built

Willys MB begin at 2000 in Nov 1941 up to JAN 1944 for the 'Type I' tub, Ford also used these from about mid Sep 1943 to mid Jan 1944. Over 200,000 tubs built.

Willys MB/Ford GPW begin again at 1 for mid Jan 1944 to end of production, the 'Type II' tub, over 200,000 tubs built.

There is a fourth number range for special radio jeep tubs based on the 'Type I' tub that may begin at 1 or 2000 and only ran for 2000 or 4000 units. Mark Tombleson keeps better data on them than I do.
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Rovai Rene » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:35 pm

Hi All
From my datas:

ACmC type 1 from 2014 to 228775 but probably begin at 2000 and possibly more than 228775
ACmC type 2 from 419 on GPW 176450 to 262101 on an MB same possibly that below.

I have myself counted GPW 176990 from Louisville DOD 1-20-44 hood 20435502S ACMC type 2 #420 Owned by French collector M. Sternak.

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:07 pm

Thanks to you all.....in my research on the ACM tub/frame units for the MBT/Bantam trailers I am of the opinion that the first ones sent to Willys began with "1000" as the ACM number.....now If I can just find some acceptable photos of an actual MBT with NO rear crossmember in it I will be happy.....as you know, not only do the manuals show the trailer has no rear crossmember, but even the Lube Chart for the hoods in late war jeeps show that design.

However every photo I have of the rear of an MBT or a Bantam shows the frame WITH a rear crossmember.....either a VERY early and short-lived version or one that was used in the manuals but changed before production actually began....,.I don't know which.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:25 pm

Hi Chuck,

The no rear cross member MBT/T 3 trailers were real. I have the back 8 inches or so of the side frame rail that shows no sign of the rear cross member from one of these trailers. The rest of the trailer did not survive being a roofing tar bucket.

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:04 pm

Tom...thanks for the confirmation...now I just need to hear from a few owners that have the trailers without the rear crossmember. I need to find out how many tub/frame assemblies were produced before they added that crossmember at the rear.....the DOD, Serial Number and mfger and of course the actual ACM number from any examples would be a great help.

Even if a trailer did not have the data plate...the ACM number would help tremendously....since Bantam began to produce them after Willys did, it may be that only Willys got the earlier tub/frames and by the time Bantam was shipped their tub/frames the change had been made?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Jon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:39 pm

Chuck,
I've put a Note on the Trailer Parts_Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/TRAILER_PART_COLOURS.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about the "MIA" rear Cross Member.
If anyone contacts me, I'll let you know.

JR
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Mark Tombleson » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:38 am

Jim Kilbourne wrote:ACM Tub numbers:

Willys MA begin at 1 and are generally the 'type I' tub...about 1555 tubs built

Willys MB begin at 2000 in Nov 1941 up to JAN 1944 for the 'Type I' tub, Ford also used these from about mid Sep 1943 to mid Jan 1944. Over 200,000 tubs built.

Willys MB/Ford GPW begin again at 1 for mid Jan 1944 to end of production, the 'Type II' tub, over 200,000 tubs built.

There is a fourth number range for special radio jeep tubs based on the 'Type I' tub that may begin at 1 or 2000 and only ran for 2000 or 4000 units. Mark Tombleson keeps better data on them than I do.
The ACM body numbers I have for the first series radio radio jeeps made for Willys-Overland Navy contracts start at 2072 and end at 4235. There were 1990 jeeps in the contract so I think the extras were for service.
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by donk_316 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 pm

I'm sorry for bringing up an old post but I didn't see a point of spreading the information even thinner through out multiple posts over the 10-12 years.

To this day there still seems to be confusion on GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 tubs.

Like the chart on viewtopic.php?t=172173 (another ACM body thread) This graphic must be taken with a little leeway in both directions.

Ford used its own bodies on the GPWs up to Sept '43 DoD when they ran out. I have found as late as Sept 17 1943. They also used ACM1 tubs for that same period. So the transition seems to be through out the month of Sept for the FORD (nonscript ofcourse) bodies to the ACM1 bodies.

The ACM2 body seems to show up around January of '44 with the ACM1 body being phased out during the same month.


So there are Ford bodied / ACM1 bodied GPWs with Sept '43 DoD.
There are ACM1 bodied / ACM2 bodied GPWs with Jan '44 DoD.

the differences between GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 bodies are a whole other topic.
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Scrumps » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:33 am

Hi,

When checking out my ‘44 MB, I found this quite useful:-

https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPBodynumbers.html

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by donk_316 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:22 pm

Scrumps,
You bet, that's a good starting point to get you looking in the right direction for sure. There are inaccuracies and incorrect info on there though.

for instance, MB and GPWs used ACM1 tubs at the same time. You need to figure out which tub is which and the number wont tell you. Only the clues will.

Use that and then cross reference with the XLS of the body used / type that is posted everywhere and then that will also help narrow down. Then take that info and cross with the MB body timeline to narrow down further.
GPW 112092 04-30-43 USA 20372531 (orig) and Bantam T3C 21327
GPW 120771 frame
GPW 120743 engine

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by JCappy » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:02 am

Question I have is on my May '44 GPW I have all matching numbers (engine, frame and original data plates) but when I went to replace a section of hat channel and had the tub off I found a 5 digit serial number etched into the L/S Floorboard support bracket. Should this number have matched the other 6 digit numbers present on the data plate, frame and motor?
John Warren Cappel

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:37 pm

That sounds like the ACM number which bears no relationship whatsoever to the NUMBERS in the frame/data plate serial number....aside from using it to track the TIMELINE in which the ACM tubs were used on GPWs/MBs were produced. It is the ACM serial number...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?

Post by JCappy » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:44 am

Thanks Chuck... you've made my day! I was concerned that after thinking for the past 15yrs I've owned this matching number '44GPW that maybe I'd been wrong. I appreciate your confirmation. Now time to get the tub back on :D
John Warren Cappel


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