What do I have here?

Manufacturers, production numbers, configurations, etc.
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dwesol
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What do I have here?

Post by dwesol » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:47 pm

I found this unusual can at a car show recently. Is this the mystery can I've read about in the posts here?
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1942 GPW 55791 DOD 8-12-42 USA # 20144366
1945 Bantam T 3 61613 DOD 2-16-45 USA # 0824672 (estimated)

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gerrykan
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Post by gerrykan » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:01 pm

Not what is commonly known as a mystery can.

These were experimental cans produced in limited quantity in 1942-43 for testing.
They were approved for production, but at the time jerrycan production had halted.
Upon resumption of production only the standard jerrycans were made.

Definitely a good find in my book.
Roy

dwesol
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Post by dwesol » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:55 pm

Thanks Roy,
Were they used by all of the services? Were they only used stateside? I found no U.S. markings like QMC or US anywhere else on the can.
Dan
1942 GPW 55791 DOD 8-12-42 USA # 20144366
1945 Bantam T 3 61613 DOD 2-16-45 USA # 0824672 (estimated)

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Post by gerrykan » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:12 am

In 1942 the Military Planning Division evolved a 5-gallon can with a cam closure.(21)
During 1943 a limited quantity of these were procured for testing purposes with the idea substituting the cam for the screw-type gasoline can.
As a result of tests made, the Armored Force, Infantry, and other arms of the service went on record as approving the cam type of can if certain defects were overcome.
Under the direction of the Fuels and Lubricants Division, these were eliminated and the Quartermaster Board made satisfactory tests.
Although the Division suggested that standardization of the cam-type closure be requested as an alternate standard to the screw type, no action was taken.(22)
Since at that time no 5-gallon cans were being procured, standardization had become an academic question.



(21) Memo, Col. G. F. Doriot, Dir of the Div, to Production Br, SOS, 13 Aug 42, sub: 5-gallon Gasoline Containers. See also same to same 17 Nov 42.
(22) Memo, Maj E. L. Bradley, Chief of Container Sec, to Hq ASF, 19 Apr 44.
Abbreviations:

ASF....Army Service Forces

Br......Branch

SOS...Services of Supply
Roy

dwesol
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Post by dwesol » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:33 am

Thanks Roy,
Dan
1942 GPW 55791 DOD 8-12-42 USA # 20144366
1945 Bantam T 3 61613 DOD 2-16-45 USA # 0824672 (estimated)


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Post by Jim Bow » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:58 pm

Isn't this a water can? I thought the ID under the handle indicated a water can.
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Post by gerrykan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:38 am

In the 5th picture, there is a G to indicate gasoline.
Water cans had a W.

In 1943 several can manufacturers stamped their info under the handles.

Probably the interpretation of the ICC requirements by a "new guy" put in charge of jerrycan contracts.
Roy

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Post by lucakiki » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:30 am

No need to add anything to what you said, Roy.
Guys might find it interesting the MC CORD brand on the camlock, same as on Cavalier or Monarch watercans...

If just the mystery cans were so easy to explain !
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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That kind of jerrycan...

Post by lucakiki » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:14 am

After two years, this topic is still quite interesting.
The handle stamping was obviously taken from standard production, as evidenced by the hole for the lid chain.
The hole on the lever of the lid, offset to the left, apparently was there to allow the use the hole on the handle stamping , in case a seal of sort might be needed.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Fred Coldwell
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U.S. Patent for experimental closure

Post by Fred Coldwell » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:03 am

Hi Roy:

To see the U.S. Patent 2,365,695 issued to L.O. Grice on December 26, 1944 for this experimental gas can closure, click here:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id= ... OR+LIQUIDS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then click on the small blue "drawing" and scroll down for the patent text.

Mr. Grice fled his patent application on March 13, 1942 for this "novel and improved type of closure adopter for use on portable containers such as gasoline cans." Mr. Grice's use of the word "improved" in this patent application has significance; it shows he does not claim his invention is "new and original". Like inventor William B. Johnson, Letcher O. Grice also worked in Washington, D.C. for the U.S. Army. Enjoy!
Happy Jeep Trails,

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1945 CJ2-26 - X50
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1945 Dodge T233 Utility
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lucakiki
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PATENT FOR IMPROVED CLOSURE

Post by lucakiki » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:15 am

Thanks, Fred! Extremely interesting, including the implications you underlined. :)
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Mark Tombleson
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Re: What do I have here?

Post by Mark Tombleson » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:45 am

That is interesting.

Is there any patent on the cam lock for the Cavalier or Monarch water cans, or anything on the USMC CONCO cam locks?

Were the German cam lock cans patented?

Fred, how does Patent law work internationally or during times of war? Did we in fact copy the German cam lock and use it to our benifit without issue?
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Fred Coldwell
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Re: What do I have here?

Post by Fred Coldwell » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:27 pm

Mark Tombleson wrote:That is interesting. Is there any patent on the cam lock for the Cavalier or Monarch water cans, or anything on the USMC CONCO cam locks? Were the German cam lock cans patented? How does Patent law work internationally or during times of war? Did we in fact copy the German cam lock and use it to our benefit without issue?
Mark:

No U.S.A. patent, German registered in the U.S.A. or one filed by Cavalier, Monarch, CONCO or anyone else, was found for the cam lock lids or cam lock spouts under my limited search terms. But I didn't search for "cam lock lid" or use any similar search term, so I cannot say it isn't there; only that I did not come across it during my few searches under inventor names and under "portable liquid container".

I don't know how international patent law works during wartime or whether we copied the German cam lock and used it without paying royalties. But I imagine honoring patents (if any) held by our enemy during wartime was very low on the list of wartime concerns. ;)
Happy Jeep Trails,

Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C

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Cobra Doc
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Re: What do I have here?

Post by Cobra Doc » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:47 pm

Fred Coldwell wrote:I don't know how international patent law works during wartime or whether we copied the German cam lock and used it without paying royalties. But I imagine honoring patents (if any) held by our enemy during wartime was very low on the list of wartime concerns. ;)
The way it worked with the patent for penicillin is that the US seized Bayer USA as enemy assets, and thereby took the patent.

During WWI the US was paying Mauser for the use of their patents in the 1903 rifles, which went into an escrow account until after the war, and Mauser received just shy of a quarter million dollars after WWI ended.

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