Dry filter instead of oil bath

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW modifications, sugestions, and ideas, official MWO's and unofficial WWII field mods NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
User avatar
maeserik
G-Captain
G-Captain
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:18 am
Location: Wijnegem Belgium Europe
Contact:

Post by maeserik » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:17 am

More info about the FRAM
Image
Image


some references :
http://www.mannol.de/Catalogue/Filter_SCT/140.html

I hope you could use this !

Erik
1942 GPW 71336 - 1951 M38 MC11891

User avatar
Bob Shaw
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2016
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:24 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Post by Bob Shaw » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:37 pm

I'm thinking this is not available in the US market
Flatfender Restorations 214-236-2535
Spc4 Robert Shaw 13F US Army/TANG 87-92
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showpho ... 61&cat=861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MB351461 07-15-1944 USA 20615850

User avatar
Mike Soltis
G-Major
G-Major
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:30 am
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Post by Mike Soltis » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:32 am

I used the Napa Gold part # 2036 with a sponge toilet gasket & it works great. I think the filter is for a Subaru if I remember correctly Mike
1942 GPW 81835 Chester, PA. USA 20186310
1946 Bantam T3C
1991 M101A2
MVPA Member
NICMVPA Member

User avatar
maurywhurt
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Western North Carolina

K&N filter

Post by maurywhurt » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:41 am

I used a K&N E-2190, which is a replacement filter for a 1978-83 Dodge Omni / Plymouth Horizon. They're available from many sources, including Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/E-2190-K-N-Perfor ... 389&sr=8-1

The two rings are 3/4" thick sponge rubber toilet cushion rings. When the assembly is inserted into the housing and the cup is clamped down, the rubber rings compress slightly to form a tight seal between the housing and filter. Here's a link to the rings on Amazon.com, but they might available at Lowe's or Home Depot as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Radiator-Specialt ... 456&sr=8-1



Image

Image

Image
GPW 58671
DoD 25 Aug '42

"For me, Jeep.....means Ford"

User avatar
Ogstad
G-Second Lieutenant
G-Second Lieutenant
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Crofton, Nebraska

Post by Ogstad » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:06 am

I have been using the same setup as above for two years and I have never overheated.
1944 Willys MB
SERIAL NUMBER: 320763
CONTRACT: US W303 ORD 5792
REGISTRATION: 20475154 (estimated)
DOD: 04-08-1944


NB1943
G-Staff Sergeant
G-Staff Sergeant
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Salida, CO
Contact:

Post by NB1943 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:49 pm

Guys

I just returned from the MVPA convention in Portland and saw something that might interst you... Richard Sanders (from Australia) and a dry filter replacement for the oil bath air cleaner. The filer is one that you can clean (that's cheaper than oil and you don't have to replace it). Also, the sealing ring is made from a special military grade urathane plastic that forms a perfect seal. He also makes several other parts (pulleys, transfer case bolts, etc) that are far superior to most anything else you can put into your Jeep. It costs a bit more, but its made from top-quality materials. (Not cheap stuff) It's well worth it and will last. You can e-mail him at richard@completedrivers.com.au or visit his website at www.richardmilitaryparts.com.au
NB
Military Vehicle Collectors of Colorado (MVCC)
MVPA #21181
(720) 431-9911

User avatar
David V
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:10 pm
Location: British guy living in France. Fontenay-sous-Bois, just east of Paris.
Contact:

Post by David V » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:23 pm

I've also been running a dry paper-type filter for the last 2 years with no over-heating problems. No carb problems either. Mixture is fine.

Maybe if I lived in a really dusty area I would opt for the oil bath but frankly there is no dust problem here. I just checked out the local car super market and there was a filter that fitted perfectly. So I bought a couple. It's since dissappeared from the shelves...

With all the bikes I've owned and fitted K&N's to, I've always had to enrich the mixture (and sometimes rejet) so it's worth checking but of course we are talking optimum performance here. Not jeep...

When I bought my jeep it had no filter at all (not even the crossover tube) and had been running that way for many years.

David
44 MB 356111 "Charlotte" since 21/02/06 - Capstan winch
42WLA 70443 "Lily" since 16/1/10

User avatar
wickedwillys45
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Beaver Dam, Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by wickedwillys45 » Mon May 06, 2019 2:59 am

Facebook g503 has taken over this forum it seems.


This is well worth the bump though.


-Joshua.
Rhetoric can't raise the dead, I'm sick of empty words, Let's lead, not follow

User avatar
W. Winget
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 2760
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 12:37 pm
Location: USA, Virginia, Carrollton
Contact:

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by W. Winget » Mon May 06, 2019 5:17 am

"Maybe if I lived in a really dusty area I would opt for the oil bath but frankly there is no dust problem here." Bad Idea....

On topic, especially for those that think OEM is always best:
How many miles does the average automobile engine live today VS one designed in the 30's? (Hint: I'm at 390,000 on my '97 Mercury)
Why does the US Army and every nation (maybe not Russia) use dry filter elements, especially in the desert environment if an oil bath is so efficient? (Hint: they don't, and it's not)
The answer to the above indicates why it's a good idea to upgrade if you actually DO drive and use your vehicle other than for points on a judging stand and want the engine to last longer between rebuilds. Cleanliness adds to longevity. Aircleaner tech wasn't invented till after WWI, it was 'new' tech less than 20 years later when the Jeep was assembled.

My 1918 Standard B Type I Liberty truck did not have an aircleaner, and it was thought out by an extensive crowd of engineers to provide the best and most reliable vehicle the Army could purchase. Less than one year later, the Type II Liberty mentions one in a parts manual but there are no illustrations. Only the Society Of Automotive Engineer concepts and patents for different types of filters appear in 1919-1921 publications.

As to overheating, this is a strange (improbable) phenomenon, as starvation of air results in a rich carb mixture, which would run cooler than a lean mixture, so until the black smoke comes out the tailpipe from the filter being too clogged, you won't overheat the engine, but it may gum up.
early 70's AMC Pacers with the 258 engines were prone to this, for some reason they piped the PVC to the aircleaner in such a fashion it would be full of soot and oil and gum up on the two different Mom's I assisted at times on the side of the road. I pulled the filter elements in both cases and they drove home on their own

Oil bath means the dirt is forced toward the bottom of the filter housing, hoping heavier elements in the air are forced by the speed of the intake vacuum to impact the oil at the bottom as it turns upward toward the carb. Expanded metal is added to slow smaller lufted material in hopes it will not enter the airstream and wind up in the carb. As the oil gets dirty, and fills with garbage, it creates more volume in the reservoir, eventually restricting airflow and you either do maintenance or choke off the air supply as the oil is now above the maximum indicated line.
Not the best concept,hoping for gravity, velocity and chance to catch bad things.

Paper Filter elements that allow air to move through the medium were not as refined as they are now (late 50's onward) and would have been used if they were available during wartime production.

Bottom line, if you use your vehicle it's a smart upgrade which won't be seen unless a judge wants to check your filter oil level.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts

Ben Dover
Gee Addict
Posts: 47151
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by Ben Dover » Mon May 06, 2019 5:41 am

Been servicing 4 Cyl Jeeps, Civilian and Military Vehicles, Industrial engines and construct machinery with Oil Bath Filters for over 6 decades with no wear or oerating problems. The 4 Cylinder Jeep Engines I have reconditioned over those years have no problem reaching 50,000+ miles between overhauls. The key to longevity is scheduled maintenance. Today's engine lubes are a better match of oil chemistry and engine metallurgy, except that the 4 Cyl Jeep engines are still "old school".
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

robymn
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:46 pm

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by robymn » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:57 pm

I use k&n filter also. I like it because it is washable and reusable.

User avatar
artificer
- R.A.E.M.E -
Posts: 13509
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Year round sunshine on the Gold Coast, SE QLD AU

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by artificer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:36 am

Frankly why bother.
The oil bath works great & is very in-expensive to maintain.
JEEP, VW, LANDROVER etc. used with no problems.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

Marty, SoCal
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6015
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:34 pm

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by Marty, SoCal » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Wow, this is digging up an old thread! :lol:

The paper elements are a positive filter, meaning the air has to go through the element with tiny passages, so the air is 100% filtered. They will still filter to the size of the pores if a little water passes through them like while fording. Same cannot be said for the oil bath. If you ever doo actually plug one, you can tap the dirt out enough to get the breathing back again. M-60 and M1A1 tanks use paper elements. We cleaned them often in the desert. Actually wrote the weight on them when new, and had to clean them to within a certain percentage , weighed with a fish scale.

K&N elements are not as efficient in cleaning the air of dirt as a standard modern paper element. The "cheesecloth" used as an element has larger pores and relies on the oil coating to actually catch dirt particles, much like the oil bath. They become more efficient at trapping dirt the dirtier they get, but then their air flow advantage goes away. (Note the instructions that say not to clean it for something like 50K miles). I've had many customers with modern jeeps that have ran them then found dirt in the intake manifold and air cleaner tubes after running off-road on dusty desert trails. I've found 1/8" of dust inside a 4.0l intake manifold on one guy's engine. Lost compression in two cylinders with only 25K miles on it. Also, If you hit a deep puddle and a little water gets into it, it carries more dirt into the engine because the pores are larger than the paper element. Improper cleaning where compressed air or high water flows are used, opens up the pores in the cheesecloth, even more, making the problem worse.

Oil bath filters generally work best only at one air flow speed. Also, the weight of the oil used effects operation. Water getting into the housing can cause the oil to rise and get sucked into the engine, (oily dirt makes a nice lapping compound). Also, odd angles makes the filter not work properly, too.
43 Ford GPW 92098
53 Dunbar Kapple M100
Sold: 61 CJ-5, 41 T207 WC-1 Dodge closed cab pickup
MVPA #8266
USMC Tanker (1811, 1812), 85-93
ASE Automotive Master tech, former Chrysler-Jeep Level 4 Mastertech, CA state EA smog license

Ben Dover
Gee Addict
Posts: 47151
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by Ben Dover » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:32 pm

My experience servicing Jeeps owned by individuals is that the Oil Bath Filter rarely, if ever gets attention resulting in 1/4" of sludge, or rust holes in the cup if accumulated moisture (just a few drops is all it takes) is not removed.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Wolfman
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Tipton,In.

Re: Dry filter instead of oil bath

Post by Wolfman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:10 am

Don't tell anyone but,
Ron is selling a dry air filter for your jeep.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 45 yrs)
EAA ( 45 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Modifications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests