ACM Tub Number Ranges?
- Chuck Lutz
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ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Being an early GPW guy, I am not up on all the intricacies of the ACM tub numbers so I wonder if you guys have any info on this....
Does anyone have any information on the ACM numbers on the tubs with regards to the LOWEST number found? Did they begin with 0001 or did they begin with 1000?
I know that Willys chose to begin the MB numbering scheme with 100000 so that the first serial number would be 100001....but what did ACM use to begin the numbering scheme for the original and later tub designs?
Does anyone have any information on the ACM numbers on the tubs with regards to the LOWEST number found? Did they begin with 0001 or did they begin with 1000?
I know that Willys chose to begin the MB numbering scheme with 100000 so that the first serial number would be 100001....but what did ACM use to begin the numbering scheme for the original and later tub designs?
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Chuck,
I have what Tom W. believes is an early Feb 44 Louisville GPW with ACM II body 7062. If they numbered starting at 0001or 1000 for ACMII bodies that would fit in. I can't answer for anything else. If someone has an ACMII body with less than 1000 on the body number lets hear from you. I do believe this tub and frame were original to each other, (pal nuts still on body bolts). Highly unlikely if BUBBA had removed body that pal nuts would have been put back on.
Regards
Bill
I have what Tom W. believes is an early Feb 44 Louisville GPW with ACM II body 7062. If they numbered starting at 0001or 1000 for ACMII bodies that would fit in. I can't answer for anything else. If someone has an ACMII body with less than 1000 on the body number lets hear from you. I do believe this tub and frame were original to each other, (pal nuts still on body bolts). Highly unlikely if BUBBA had removed body that pal nuts would have been put back on.
Regards
Bill
Bill
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GPW 178896 probable 1-27-44 to 2-14-44 DOD ??
frame off completed 4/15 USN
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USN ADJ2 67-71
GPW 178896 probable 1-27-44 to 2-14-44 DOD ??
frame off completed 4/15 USN
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- Jim Kilbourne
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
ACM Tub numbers:
Willys MA begin at 1 and are generally the 'type I' tub...about 1555 tubs built
Willys MB begin at 2000 in Nov 1941 up to JAN 1944 for the 'Type I' tub, Ford also used these from about mid Sep 1943 to mid Jan 1944. Over 200,000 tubs built.
Willys MB/Ford GPW begin again at 1 for mid Jan 1944 to end of production, the 'Type II' tub, over 200,000 tubs built.
There is a fourth number range for special radio jeep tubs based on the 'Type I' tub that may begin at 1 or 2000 and only ran for 2000 or 4000 units. Mark Tombleson keeps better data on them than I do.
Willys MA begin at 1 and are generally the 'type I' tub...about 1555 tubs built
Willys MB begin at 2000 in Nov 1941 up to JAN 1944 for the 'Type I' tub, Ford also used these from about mid Sep 1943 to mid Jan 1944. Over 200,000 tubs built.
Willys MB/Ford GPW begin again at 1 for mid Jan 1944 to end of production, the 'Type II' tub, over 200,000 tubs built.
There is a fourth number range for special radio jeep tubs based on the 'Type I' tub that may begin at 1 or 2000 and only ran for 2000 or 4000 units. Mark Tombleson keeps better data on them than I do.
Jim Kilbourne
I COLLECT WILLYS MB NUMBERS! Please send me your Frame, Engine, Body, Hood numbers and DOD. Thanks!
WANTED: MB unrestored, used, OD paint, dash panel light housings
I COLLECT WILLYS MB NUMBERS! Please send me your Frame, Engine, Body, Hood numbers and DOD. Thanks!
WANTED: MB unrestored, used, OD paint, dash panel light housings
- Rovai Rene
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Hi All
From my datas:
ACmC type 1 from 2014 to 228775 but probably begin at 2000 and possibly more than 228775
ACmC type 2 from 419 on GPW 176450 to 262101 on an MB same possibly that below.
I have myself counted GPW 176990 from Louisville DOD 1-20-44 hood 20435502S ACMC type 2 #420 Owned by French collector M. Sternak.
Best regards
Rene
From my datas:
ACmC type 1 from 2014 to 228775 but probably begin at 2000 and possibly more than 228775
ACmC type 2 from 419 on GPW 176450 to 262101 on an MB same possibly that below.
I have myself counted GPW 176990 from Louisville DOD 1-20-44 hood 20435502S ACMC type 2 #420 Owned by French collector M. Sternak.
Best regards
Rene
MVPA#15847
GPW92548
DOD 1-21-43
mystery box 4x4
20197669
GPW92548
DOD 1-21-43
mystery box 4x4
20197669
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Thanks to you all.....in my research on the ACM tub/frame units for the MBT/Bantam trailers I am of the opinion that the first ones sent to Willys began with "1000" as the ACM number.....now If I can just find some acceptable photos of an actual MBT with NO rear crossmember in it I will be happy.....as you know, not only do the manuals show the trailer has no rear crossmember, but even the Lube Chart for the hoods in late war jeeps show that design.
However every photo I have of the rear of an MBT or a Bantam shows the frame WITH a rear crossmember.....either a VERY early and short-lived version or one that was used in the manuals but changed before production actually began....,.I don't know which.
However every photo I have of the rear of an MBT or a Bantam shows the frame WITH a rear crossmember.....either a VERY early and short-lived version or one that was used in the manuals but changed before production actually began....,.I don't know which.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Tom Wolboldt
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Hi Chuck,
The no rear cross member MBT/T 3 trailers were real. I have the back 8 inches or so of the side frame rail that shows no sign of the rear cross member from one of these trailers. The rest of the trailer did not survive being a roofing tar bucket.
The no rear cross member MBT/T 3 trailers were real. I have the back 8 inches or so of the side frame rail that shows no sign of the rear cross member from one of these trailers. The rest of the trailer did not survive being a roofing tar bucket.
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Tom...thanks for the confirmation...now I just need to hear from a few owners that have the trailers without the rear crossmember. I need to find out how many tub/frame assemblies were produced before they added that crossmember at the rear.....the DOD, Serial Number and mfger and of course the actual ACM number from any examples would be a great help.
Even if a trailer did not have the data plate...the ACM number would help tremendously....since Bantam began to produce them after Willys did, it may be that only Willys got the earlier tub/frames and by the time Bantam was shipped their tub/frames the change had been made?
Even if a trailer did not have the data plate...the ACM number would help tremendously....since Bantam began to produce them after Willys did, it may be that only Willys got the earlier tub/frames and by the time Bantam was shipped their tub/frames the change had been made?
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Jon
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Chuck,
I've put a Note on the Trailer Parts_Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/TRAILER_PART_COLOURS.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about the "MIA" rear Cross Member.
If anyone contacts me, I'll let you know.
JR
I've put a Note on the Trailer Parts_Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/TRAILER_PART_COLOURS.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about the "MIA" rear Cross Member.
If anyone contacts me, I'll let you know.
JR
Jon Rogers
AUSTRALIA
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Parts Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/PART_COLOURS.htm
1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W
AUSTRALIA
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1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W
- Mark Tombleson
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
The ACM body numbers I have for the first series radio radio jeeps made for Willys-Overland Navy contracts start at 2072 and end at 4235. There were 1990 jeeps in the contract so I think the extras were for service.Jim Kilbourne wrote:ACM Tub numbers:
Willys MA begin at 1 and are generally the 'type I' tub...about 1555 tubs built
Willys MB begin at 2000 in Nov 1941 up to JAN 1944 for the 'Type I' tub, Ford also used these from about mid Sep 1943 to mid Jan 1944. Over 200,000 tubs built.
Willys MB/Ford GPW begin again at 1 for mid Jan 1944 to end of production, the 'Type II' tub, over 200,000 tubs built.
There is a fourth number range for special radio jeep tubs based on the 'Type I' tub that may begin at 1 or 2000 and only ran for 2000 or 4000 units. Mark Tombleson keeps better data on them than I do.
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
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2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
I'm sorry for bringing up an old post but I didn't see a point of spreading the information even thinner through out multiple posts over the 10-12 years.
To this day there still seems to be confusion on GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 tubs.
Like the chart on viewtopic.php?t=172173 (another ACM body thread) This graphic must be taken with a little leeway in both directions.
Ford used its own bodies on the GPWs up to Sept '43 DoD when they ran out. I have found as late as Sept 17 1943. They also used ACM1 tubs for that same period. So the transition seems to be through out the month of Sept for the FORD (nonscript ofcourse) bodies to the ACM1 bodies.
The ACM2 body seems to show up around January of '44 with the ACM1 body being phased out during the same month.
So there are Ford bodied / ACM1 bodied GPWs with Sept '43 DoD.
There are ACM1 bodied / ACM2 bodied GPWs with Jan '44 DoD.
the differences between GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 bodies are a whole other topic.
To this day there still seems to be confusion on GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 tubs.
Like the chart on viewtopic.php?t=172173 (another ACM body thread) This graphic must be taken with a little leeway in both directions.
Ford used its own bodies on the GPWs up to Sept '43 DoD when they ran out. I have found as late as Sept 17 1943. They also used ACM1 tubs for that same period. So the transition seems to be through out the month of Sept for the FORD (nonscript ofcourse) bodies to the ACM1 bodies.
The ACM2 body seems to show up around January of '44 with the ACM1 body being phased out during the same month.
So there are Ford bodied / ACM1 bodied GPWs with Sept '43 DoD.
There are ACM1 bodied / ACM2 bodied GPWs with Jan '44 DoD.
the differences between GPW / ACM1 and ACM2 bodies are a whole other topic.
GPW 112092 04-30-43 USA 20372531 (orig)
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Hi,
When checking out my ‘44 MB, I found this quite useful:-
https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPBodynumbers.html
Scrumps
When checking out my ‘44 MB, I found this quite useful:-
https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPBodynumbers.html
Scrumps
Dec '42 Willys MB
Aug ‘44 Willys MB
2021 New Defender 90 D250 HSE
2005 Landrover 90 CSW
2024 Range Rover Sport
1967 MGB
Royal Navy Weapons Engineer 1979-2007.
Aug ‘44 Willys MB
2021 New Defender 90 D250 HSE
2005 Landrover 90 CSW
2024 Range Rover Sport
1967 MGB
Royal Navy Weapons Engineer 1979-2007.
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Scrumps,
You bet, that's a good starting point to get you looking in the right direction for sure. There are inaccuracies and incorrect info on there though.
for instance, MB and GPWs used ACM1 tubs at the same time. You need to figure out which tub is which and the number wont tell you. Only the clues will.
Use that and then cross reference with the XLS of the body used / type that is posted everywhere and then that will also help narrow down. Then take that info and cross with the MB body timeline to narrow down further.
You bet, that's a good starting point to get you looking in the right direction for sure. There are inaccuracies and incorrect info on there though.
for instance, MB and GPWs used ACM1 tubs at the same time. You need to figure out which tub is which and the number wont tell you. Only the clues will.
Use that and then cross reference with the XLS of the body used / type that is posted everywhere and then that will also help narrow down. Then take that info and cross with the MB body timeline to narrow down further.
GPW 112092 04-30-43 USA 20372531 (orig)
- JCappy
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Question I have is on my May '44 GPW I have all matching numbers (engine, frame and original data plates) but when I went to replace a section of hat channel and had the tub off I found a 5 digit serial number etched into the L/S Floorboard support bracket. Should this number have matched the other 6 digit numbers present on the data plate, frame and motor?
John Warren Cappel
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
That sounds like the ACM number which bears no relationship whatsoever to the NUMBERS in the frame/data plate serial number....aside from using it to track the TIMELINE in which the ACM tubs were used on GPWs/MBs were produced. It is the ACM serial number...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- JCappy
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Re: ACM Tub Number Ranges?
Thanks Chuck... you've made my day! I was concerned that after thinking for the past 15yrs I've owned this matching number '44GPW that maybe I'd been wrong. I appreciate your confirmation. Now time to get the tub back on
John Warren Cappel
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