2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
That thing is cool as hell!
Looks like it stands up by itself like an well worn pair of jeans!
-Jason
Looks like it stands up by itself like an well worn pair of jeans!
-Jason
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Hi Greg - Nice find, perhaps this is it ?
From my archive - ' Bag BG-44 with carrying strap ', with this drawn date of 21 April 1947. I assume the 44 would indicate model 44 = 1944, and redrawn in 1947 ?
Sizes are 21'' long X 7'' wide at the base X 8'' high
Len
From my archive - ' Bag BG-44 with carrying strap ', with this drawn date of 21 April 1947. I assume the 44 would indicate model 44 = 1944, and redrawn in 1947 ?
Sizes are 21'' long X 7'' wide at the base X 8'' high
Len
Owner & Custodian of GPW 24043 since 1976.
MVT No 366.
MVT No 366.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Len,
Thanks for the lead and the drawings!
I think you are almost spot-on. I do believe what I have here is a Navy version of the same bag, or same bag design principle or style, with both of them (the BG-44 and this one) probably built to older federal specifications. The polygonal (not rectangular) shape, the support corners, front flap with straps, the carry strap, the insert, and even those two wing-like flaps to keep the weather out of the seams between the front flap and the sides of the bag are all either identical or very similar. But this bag is smaller. It measures 17" x 8" x 8", it is heavier and stiffer than the BG-44's I have seen in person, it doesn't incorporate a carry handle at the top, and those anchors are impossible to ignore! HAHA.
Note that the date of the re-drawing is 1947, but the date of the original drawing is built into the original drawing number at the bottom: 2-3-33. And it was part of a set of drawings made between 2-3-33 and 2-3-38. (Interesting to see "War Department" on a 1947 document, but it wasn't dissolved until late in the year, when the Army, Air Force and of course the Navy were made separate services under a cabinet-level Department of Defense.) Which confirms my suspicions about this bag being possibly even older than WWII.
What I am scratching my head about most in astonishment is in seeing what I always took to be Signal Corps nomenclature (BG- for Bag, CH- for Chest, CS- for Case, TE- for Tool Equipment, TL for Tool, etc, link to full list on Radionerds site here) on a QMC document. I have never seen that before. In fact, I have never seen any other part number from any other technical branch use that nomenclature. WTH?
The "44" in BG-44 is a model number. The Signal Corps had over two-hundred types of bags, all with a unique identifier. BG-1 through BG-216. The BG-44 was used to carry various toolsets, including TE-21, TE-27, TE-36, and TE-41.
Here are some actual photos of a BG-44 from the Radionerds site.
I am hoping SillysMB or AZ Jeff or someone has some thoughts on all this.
Thanks for the lead and the drawings!
I think you are almost spot-on. I do believe what I have here is a Navy version of the same bag, or same bag design principle or style, with both of them (the BG-44 and this one) probably built to older federal specifications. The polygonal (not rectangular) shape, the support corners, front flap with straps, the carry strap, the insert, and even those two wing-like flaps to keep the weather out of the seams between the front flap and the sides of the bag are all either identical or very similar. But this bag is smaller. It measures 17" x 8" x 8", it is heavier and stiffer than the BG-44's I have seen in person, it doesn't incorporate a carry handle at the top, and those anchors are impossible to ignore! HAHA.
Note that the date of the re-drawing is 1947, but the date of the original drawing is built into the original drawing number at the bottom: 2-3-33. And it was part of a set of drawings made between 2-3-33 and 2-3-38. (Interesting to see "War Department" on a 1947 document, but it wasn't dissolved until late in the year, when the Army, Air Force and of course the Navy were made separate services under a cabinet-level Department of Defense.) Which confirms my suspicions about this bag being possibly even older than WWII.
What I am scratching my head about most in astonishment is in seeing what I always took to be Signal Corps nomenclature (BG- for Bag, CH- for Chest, CS- for Case, TE- for Tool Equipment, TL for Tool, etc, link to full list on Radionerds site here) on a QMC document. I have never seen that before. In fact, I have never seen any other part number from any other technical branch use that nomenclature. WTH?
The "44" in BG-44 is a model number. The Signal Corps had over two-hundred types of bags, all with a unique identifier. BG-1 through BG-216. The BG-44 was used to carry various toolsets, including TE-21, TE-27, TE-36, and TE-41.
Here are some actual photos of a BG-44 from the Radionerds site.
I am hoping SillysMB or AZ Jeff or someone has some thoughts on all this.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
I would not be surprised if the general design came from the Bell System. Their old stuff looks mighty "military"...
Jeff Q.
AZ
PS: and you know my thoughts on those anchor snaps...
Jeff Q.
AZ
PS: and you know my thoughts on those anchor snaps...
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
That it does! And they had many of the same suppliers. Have you ever seen Bell System FAK's? Same exact box as the jeep box, same stuff (Davis, etc) always inside. The #4 Dayton pattern axe on my 45 Willys MB was BELL SYSTEM and none the wiser. And since I was never fond of unit markings and never put them on my jeep, I once gussied it up with Bell System stuff to play a lineman's jeep.
And I agree with them. For everyone else, Jeff informed that the anchor is a maker's mark found on many WWII era buckles and also well into 'Nam. I'm back to it being an Army bag.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Nice bag Greg,
I cant find anything other than the BG-44 at the moment. Do you think yours had a handle where the rivets are on top ?
I cant find anything other than the BG-44 at the moment. Do you think yours had a handle where the rivets are on top ?
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Silly's MB
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
The rivets and detailing look like this one.
https://www.kpemig.de/US-Signal-Corps-W ... BG-44-Used
https://www.kpemig.de/US-Signal-Corps-W ... BG-44-Used
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
If it helps some more information ?
Len
Len
Owner & Custodian of GPW 24043 since 1976.
MVT No 366.
MVT No 366.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Thanks, Roger. I love it, but it's impossible for me to convey just how stiff it is. I have handled a lot of WWII canvas, as you can imagine, and I have never seen anything this stiff. I cleaned it up with scalding hot water, mild soap, and a brush the other day. After an hour or so it was very supple and I was able to manipulate it and strap it up the way it was intended. I was was so pleased with myself I took a few more photos. This morning, it is as stiff as a board again. Whatever they impregnated it with worked and then some!Silly's MB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:48 pmNice bag Greg,
I cant find anything other than the BG-44 at the moment. Do you think yours had a handle where the rivets are on top ?
No handle is missing (as your next post and photo also attests). The two pair of rivets in a row are for the stiffener going across the bag at the top. The two sets of two vertical rivets are for the straps.
That is the same exact bag, no doubt about it.Silly's MB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:26 pmThe rivets and detailing look like this one.
https://www.kpemig.de/US-Signal-Corps-W ... BG-44-Used
The source remains a mystery.
AZ Jeff sent me a photo of a buckle he has originally found on a Willys MB door strap that bears the same anchor logo. And he said he has seen the anchor logo on buckles and snaps and such on 'Nam gear. But doesn't know the company name.
tin medic sent me photos of Army tourniquets from the 60's that have buckles with the same anchor logo. The tourniquets were made by Industries for the Blind.
I found two potential references in the WPB contracts books.
Anchor Canvas Products Corporation in Pleasantville, NY ($753,000 for buckets, folding canvas buckets, canvas basins, and M1936 belts, with Navy and QMC), and...
Anchor Duck Mills in Rome, Georgia ($5,572,000 for duck, duck cotton, canvas cotton, cloth, cotton duck cloth, webbing, cotton rope, and nylon duck cloth, with Navy and QMC).
Not thrilled with either one.
The first made finished products, but I'd feel better if it included bags, and it seems kind of small.
The second is very large, and I found a reference that described their trademark as an anchor with a rope wrapped around the shank, but these anchors are plain, and these types of mills (Rome was a major center for many of them) didn't make finished products, they made the material that others were using to make finished products.
Thanks, Len. It does help. It might help more if I could read the small text and figures, but when I save it and expand it, they go fuzzy. I suspect it would be the same if you emailed it to me. The drawing is still a mystery to me irrespective of the bag itself. Still don't fully understand why the QMC, under the auspices of the WD, would have a drawing for a bag with Signal Corps nomenclature in 1933, or in 1947.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Greg , the bag I posted earlier does have a handle where the 4 horizontal rivets are so I would suggest yours is missing.
Do you think the anchor could possibly only relate to the metalwork ? You could look up North and Judd in the contracts .
https://nbindustrial.org/collection/north-judd/
Do you think the anchor could possibly only relate to the metalwork ? You could look up North and Judd in the contracts .
https://nbindustrial.org/collection/north-judd/
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Wingnutt
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Thanks, Roger. And yes that is what I was thinking. Could just be a buckle maker.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
1904 buckle
https://cdm16630.contentdm.oclc.org/dig ... l4/id/1026
1952 mention as a subcontractor for gas masks.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=J-E ... es&f=false
Article about problems of procurement mentioning North and Judd buckle pressed black nickel.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=D-3 ... es&f=false
https://cdm16630.contentdm.oclc.org/dig ... l4/id/1026
1952 mention as a subcontractor for gas masks.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=J-E ... es&f=false
Article about problems of procurement mentioning North and Judd buckle pressed black nickel.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=D-3 ... es&f=false
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Wingnutt
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Thanks, Roger. I think that's it. They registered that TM in 1928. They had about a dozen contracts with the QMC and Navy between 1940 and 1945 worth $1,006,000.
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
Meager pickings in November so far, Gents. G503-relevant keepers from my last three small hauls included...
...a Barcalo 28S DOE wrench, a deep Craftsman (H)3/8-drive socket, a deep Plomb 52xx 3/8-drive socket, and a 1/2-drive "-D-I-" socket in this lot...
..."E" stamped Blue-Point flare nut wrench, Champion-DeArment No. 420 pump pliers with the correct patent, and the postwar Plomb 5295 3/8-drive socket set box in this lot...
...and a couple more "-D-I-" sockets and an Armstrong DOE wrench with "WHIT." markings and a Merlin-Packard part number in this lot...
...a Barcalo 28S DOE wrench, a deep Craftsman (H)3/8-drive socket, a deep Plomb 52xx 3/8-drive socket, and a 1/2-drive "-D-I-" socket in this lot...
..."E" stamped Blue-Point flare nut wrench, Champion-DeArment No. 420 pump pliers with the correct patent, and the postwar Plomb 5295 3/8-drive socket set box in this lot...
...and a couple more "-D-I-" sockets and an Armstrong DOE wrench with "WHIT." markings and a Merlin-Packard part number in this lot...
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Re: 2020 Vision - Wingnutt's Flea Market Finds
The Plomb box was filled with miscellaneous DBEs, no drive tools, and three of them helped me complete an 81xx series set.
The box itself cleaned up so well I decided to put all my Plomb and Extended Plomb Family 3/8-drive orphan pieces inside it. Mix of Plomb 52xx, Plomb WF-, and a few Proto LA.
Lastly, here's that Armstrong HI-TENSILE wrench. I love the way they put the milled opening sizes in decimal inches on the jaws just in case the Whitworth nut and bolt size markings on the shank were confusing! The AT- number cross-references to the Merlin-Packard kit.
The box itself cleaned up so well I decided to put all my Plomb and Extended Plomb Family 3/8-drive orphan pieces inside it. Mix of Plomb 52xx, Plomb WF-, and a few Proto LA.
Lastly, here's that Armstrong HI-TENSILE wrench. I love the way they put the milled opening sizes in decimal inches on the jaws just in case the Whitworth nut and bolt size markings on the shank were confusing! The AT- number cross-references to the Merlin-Packard kit.
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