Late MB long block currently at .040, no ridge

[Thomas Jacobson]

Folks,

I have an extra MB engine that I could part with…. I am posting here to see if anyone is interested. Here is what I know about it at this point:
- MB6213xx
- Cylinders are at .040, no significant ridge at top, but are aged and probably needs to be honed with new pistons, or bored out to .060
- Correct MB head
- Complete “long” block, w/flywheel, timing chain & cover, etc.
- Have not torn it down yet to check crank etc.
- Removed from a complete MB I purchased for parts years ago, nothing seriously wrong with it from what I can see. Not rusty.

If someone is interested, I would be willing tear it down, and take to a good machinist for evaluation including:
- Clean and "boil" out
- Magnaflux for usual cracks such as around distributor, and visual deck crack inspection
- Cylinder measurement and inspection
- Crank inspection for cracks
If it passes the above, I would expect buyer to pay for the inspection costs, plus $950 for the “long” block, plus shipping. (can send as separate parts to reduce weight). I might be willing to throw in the bell housing and a few other items should you need them. I am firm on my price ($950) as good MB blocks are getting hard to find, and I am in no rush.

I live in NW Wisconsin, and drive to Minneapolis frequently, and also on occasion to the Chicago area, and could drop it off for free in those areas or nearby.

Contact me if you are interested, and we can discuss, and I can forward pictures. Check out my web page on re-sleeving an MB engine FYI. I would be willing to drop it there as well should you want him to do the work. http://thomas.tcjnet.com/sleeving/

Thomas Jacobson

[CJ_Max]

Do you know if the engine was running before it was taken out of the jeep?

[Weaseler]

Wasn t engines used after 48???? They were used in welders generators water pumps???

[Thomas Jacobson]

I assume it was running, but no proof... vehicle was missing carb, and had not been used in some time, front of frame was broken, probably from plowing.... engine will need a hone, rings, and gasket/seal set at a minimum, as any engine that has sat as long as this one has (20 years I would guess), but can't really tell until it is torn down and inspected. Did not want to do that unless someone is interested in buying it.

T.

[Thomas Jacobson]

Follow up:

This engine is still available, and my price is still $950. If nobody bites here, I will have it cleaned and magnafluxed, and then put it on eBay I guess.

I also have a flywheel, bell housing, and MB transfercase w/late drum style brake (Brown-Lipe I think) core that I would be willing to throw in for another $250.

Also, I may have a reason to drive down to Atlanta in the next month or so.. and might be able to deliver there....

Thomas.

[Joe Gopan]

0.040" bore with wear may not clean up at 0.060". Depends on ability to center the boring machine over the cylinder bores. Sleeving to STD. may be a better option.

[Thomas Jacobson]

Ben,
Good point, I have seen many that will not clean up myself, but this one has no ridge I can see or feel with my finger nail... will research it more.. and all the cyls look about the same, no deep scratches etc. but this is why best thing might be to have a good shop check it.. and tell if it only needs a light hone (for seating new rings) or has to go to .060.... Here is one picture.... will take a better one after I clean off all the oil scale or whatever it is... cyl wall is actually quite smooth.)



If people are interested, I can post more pictures... but I think that means I need to tear it down to check all four completely...

T.

(PS- See my page on sleeving... http://thomas.tcjnet.com/sleeving/ ... )

[Joe Gopan]

Can you "mike" the existing taper?

[artificer]

Where was the 0.040" measurement obtained?

Measuring the unworn bottom & top of the bore, under the no ring travel, if identical @ 0.040" undersize will indicate no taper, ovality or wear, if all cylinder tops look the same as the picture.

To me the bore pictured looks like this engine hasn't done any work/revolutions/miles since being re-bored previously.

One can clearly see the hone marks on the complete area shown with minimal surface rust. This includes the more shiny top machining in the no ring travel portion. There is absolutely no ring ridge.

Deglazing & a set of rings should get things running purrrrfectly again.

[Thomas Jacobson]

I was just quoting the number stamped in the top of the pistons, which is clearly 040.... Now you guys have peaked my interest, I guess I will tear it down and take it to be "boiled" out, magnafluxed (or do the dye thing), and measured with a fancy digital bore measuring tool for wear, taper, etc.... then take a bunch of pictures....

More to come... in a week or two, or three.

T.

[artificer]

I think this engine is nearly a brand new re-build!
So definitely going overboard IMO.

You'll not recover anything more by doing so much apparently un-needed work.
Those pistons are likely new, as is the bore by what can be seen in the one picture.

I would pull the pistons through the top, in this case & measure bores.
Keep all parts, bearings, pistons/rods etc. in order so they can go back in exactly the same place.

If this bore measurement is correct for 0.040" pistons i.e. the same top & bottom there is absolutely no need for ovality, taper etc. checks.
You'll likely find, I suspect, someone re-bored/re-built this engine then nearly immediately the vehicle was parked & left for some other unknown reason.

Do not remove the crank but cover/protect/ carefully when de-glazing [not honing as the hone marks are still apparent] the bore, removing minimal material except the surface rust.
Then flush thoroughly with very hot detergent water, when this de-glazing is completed, then oil film.

The cylinders will be good after minimally de-glazing the bore, which will be as new again. Then re-fit the pistons with new correctly fitted & gapped rings. Good rod bearings I'm just re-using.

You'll have an as new engine, for peanuts

[Joe Gopan]

Measuring the cylinder bore at the top and bottom of the ring travel is the only way to accurately measure bore taper, it can't be done by guessing. It does not take much taper to consider a rebore over just a ring job. Bores with as little as 0.005" taper will not give as many miles of service as will a rebore back to factory standards.

[Thomas Jacobson]

Ben,

You wise and persnickety guy, (and admirable for it in our current world that seems to lack rigor and precision), wondering what you think of my slat grill engine sleeving.... sounds like you are a believer in sleeving MB/GPW engines.... what do you think of those ORD sleeves I got from Mullins shown in my web page:
http://thomas.tcjnet.com/sleeving/

Not sure what the OD was of those sleeves, but as I mentioned on that page, the machinist, who is highly experienced doing lots of tractor engines in a farm community, told me he "broke through" in one small place. He did not seem to think it was a problem.

Also, I always thought sleeves are inserted cooled by dry ice or whatever, into a warm block, to lock them in. I am not sure that he did this, but I do remember him saying something about sealant....

T.

[Joe Gopan]

Am aware of the stepped sleeves installed by French Ordnance in their Jeeps, they are just fine. I only use the 3 1/8" X 8 1/8" X 3/32" Sleeves that need no shortening or notching for rod clearance.
The sleeves are "Dry" type and are availible thru Federal Mogul, Sealed Power, Perfect Circle, McQuay Norris, etc.

The Jeep block is bored 3.3125" to prepare for the 3.3155 OD sleeve. This results in a 0.0025-0.0035 press fit. Sleeves are pressed in after coatinng the outside with light oil or a special sleeve lube. I have sometimes placed a light bulb in the bores prior to pressing in sleeves and have installed sleeves using a block of hardwood and a 2# Machinist hammer when in the field and no press was available.
The new sleeves are then bored and honed to the finished oversize.
Simple.