M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

1950 - 1952, M38, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38.
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mdainsd
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M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by mdainsd » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:23 pm

Hello forum.

First post, but a long time MV enthusiast. I started in 1968 putting an M43 together for my first vehicle. Ive done lots of MV work/repair/restoration and enjoying them, but this is my first non MUTT flat fender jeep.

I am putting together a jeep I recently acquired, its a franked jeep with an M38 body on a CJ2A chassis. The only CJ body parts is a hood and grill. I finally talked a friend of 50 years out of a NOS M38 grille he has to have had for thirty or more years.

Now that i have it, I haven't ever seen one like it. Everything appears the same except there is a small budge forward at the bottom center, behind it is a tab for mounting to the frame like a CJ. It has the captive nuts for the hinges, so it really makes no sense. I have yet to find picture of a M38 with this feature on the grille, although I have seen it on Some GPW grilles. All the M38 parts bolt right up to it like the buckets and the hinges. The closest I have found to it is a illustration in the first few pages of Ryan Miller's M38 book. Its a phantom drawing for the prototype manual. You can see this budge in this drawing.

Here is a pic of this feature on a GPW grille:

Disregard the yellow arrows, I lifted this picture from this site.

Image

There is a label applied to it, but unfortunately over the years some of it has been lost. whats left reads:

668124
I -----GUARD RADIATOR
CO----------0
LABELED MR 12-5--------

The "-"s indicate characters where the label is missing

I will try to post pictures, but Im waiting for my hosting service registration to go through.

So what do I have here?

Thanks
Last edited by mdainsd on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:07 pm

668124 CJ-2A Radiator Guard used with Bottom Mounted Radiator.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mdainsd
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by mdainsd » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:47 pm

Thank you! Maybe later in production? i have a couple of CJ-2A grills here, and they don't have the brush guard mounting holes. Also the headlight opening won't accept M38 buckets, But, numbers are numbers, and mine are pre 50 so changes surely could have been made.

Thank you again.

M

Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by Ben Dover » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:55 am

I don't think the M-Series Jeep Buckets will fit the grills of the CJ's. The M-38 Buckets made for Douglas Connectors were also universal to 2 1/2 Ton REO, 5 Ton 6X6, and 10 Ton 6X6 of the 50's-early 60's period.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mdainsd
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by mdainsd » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:31 am

Well. I need to get this hosting site on board. Pictures, I am sure would help.

Or if someone can help I could email the pics to them for posting?

To recap. This thing in every way is an M38 grille. It possesses the following traits:

M38 light bucket compatibility, with two large circular hole, each surrounded by 8 (I believe) threaded holes for the bucket mount screws. Also present are the four brush guard threaded mounting holes, two each side.

Four threaded holes at the bottom front (two each side) that accept the grille hinges.

The tombstone shaped openings for the blackout marker lights. No parking light mounting holes around these openings. Inside are the perches for the stud mounted blackout marker lights.

In every way an M38 grille, except for:

This forward budge at the bottom of the middle grille opening, with a tab on the backside to pickup a frame mount on the front crossmember.

I can not find a single picture of an M38 with this feature, further, I cannot find a single picture of a CJ2A with this feature either.

I'll go find another way to post pictures. I love a good mystery :P


Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by Ben Dover » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:49 am

The 668124 Part Number is in the 1949 CJ-2A/CJ-3A Parts Book. There are quite a few Jeep Parts made with appendages, the Early CJ-5, for example, has stamped features that only relate to M-38A1. early CJ-2A had Pioneer Tool indents, etc..
The pre Standardized M-38 of the late 40's shared features of the CJ-2A/CJ-3A.
Post a pic, it might find a buyer.
Last edited by Ben Dover on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mdainsd
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by mdainsd » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:19 am

I will. I just requested an album over at Willys M Jeeps, so I think that will be the ticket.

mdainsd
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Re: M38 Grille, or?

Post by mdainsd » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:43 am

Ha! (Hopefully), now we are cooking with gas!

Overal front view:

Image

Part number tag remnant

Image

Close up of the "bump"

Image

I hope this helps :?:

Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by Ben Dover » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:24 pm

It's a composite of sorts, kinda like watching a grill "morph". Grill just might be a development mod of a CJ-3A Grill used on very early prototype or production M-38 that is modified for the hinges installed on the M-38. Note the bottom edge of the guard in the above photo, it is raised at either end just as CJ-2A and CJ-3A guard is. The production M-38 radiator guard is straight across along the bottom There are brackets on the CJ-3A/CJ-3A Jeep Frame where the raised ends attach with bolts.
Last edited by Ben Dover on Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mdainsd
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Posts: 57
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Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by mdainsd » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Thank you,

I can take that as an answer!

Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by Ben Dover » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:36 pm

Me to. The Willys factory prints for the 668124 Guard along with M-38 Part Numbers 673249 and 673313 the Bare and Finished guards may disclose the identity of this very rare piece of M-38 history.
I wish I had one like it. I have a NOS 673313 M-38 Radiator Guard and it is different.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mdainsd
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Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by mdainsd » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:26 am

Here it is as a fit check on my FrankenJeep.

Image

Every thing kind of lines up with e CJ2A chassis.

Note: this grille has the bolt hole mounts to mount to the CJ2A frame mounts OR the hinge mounts of a M38 frame. The mystery deepens, lol.

mdainsd
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Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by mdainsd » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:51 am

Ben, I sent you a PM, but not sure I got all the nuances right. Let me know if you got it.

Ben Dover
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Re: M38 Grille, or? (now with pictures)

Post by Ben Dover » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:50 pm

Ben Dover wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:24 pm
It's a composite of sorts, kinda like watching a grill "morph". Grill just might be a development mod of a CJ-3A Grill used on very early prototype or production M-38 that is modified for the hinges installed on the M-38. Note the bottom edge of the guard in the above photo, it is raised at either end just as CJ-2A and CJ-3A guard is. The production M-38 radiator guard is straight across along the bottom There are brackets on the CJ-3A/CJ-3A Jeep Frame where the raised ends attach with bolts.
I was wrong, the M-38 Radiator Guards are not straight across the full with of the bottom edge, except for the hinge provision, the bottom is configured with the stepped ends just like MB/CJ-2A/CJ-3A. Cuz recently posted some factory photos of M-38 Jeeps that clearly show the detail of the Radiator Guards.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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