cross-mating parts Engine/trans

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deputyvaughn
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cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by deputyvaughn » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:54 pm

I have a 1962 CJ5 that has been cross-breed-ed with a m151 drivetrain. I like the m151 engine ok, but I'm not impressed with the tranny. I have a chance to get a parts Jeep that still has the civilian drivetrain in it.
Question is: has anyone here ever tried to mate a M151 engine to a civilian, three speed, three stick, I believe it's a Dana 18 transmission? Will they even be close enough to try?

Scott
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Rickf
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by Rickf » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Never heard of it done but that does not mean it can't be done but you have a couple of issues here. You would have to use the Jeep clutch plate because the spline on the 151 is a strange one. The Dana 18 is the transfer case. They should have both the front and rear shafts coming out at the bottom side if I remember correctly which will give you phasing problems with the driveshafts. Due to the transfer case you will need to fabricate transmission mounts and driveshafts. The transmission should be a T15, they are adequate but not the best and they do not have a synchronized first gear. As far as the motor to transmission. The bell housing just might bolt to the transmission but you would have to check pilot shaft lengthy and pilot bearing size. If you want to do the 151 engine to Jeep bell then if it does not bolt up you could make a separator plate with dual hole patterns in it. Then you run into the aforementioned clutch issues. IF the Jeep clutchplate is the same or smaller diameter as the 151 clutchplate then you are good to go. You can use the 151 flywheel and pressure plate. If it is bigger than the 151 then you have top go with the Jeep pressure plate and most likely have the flywheel redrilled to that pattern. If you are going to be doing this much work why don't you just use the Jeep driveline entirely? Then you have a ton of engine swap options. There are adapters for just about any Ford or Chevy motor into a Jeep.

Rick
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
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deputyvaughn
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by deputyvaughn » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 pm

I was hoping that the mating could be done by using the m151 bellhousing and the civilian clutch disk. The M151 is a 134 cubic inch four cylinder same as the civilian. The intake/exaust manifolds and distributor are on opposite sides from each other and the m151 uses the sidedraft instead of downdraft carb. The blocks look essentially the same. I haven't had the opportunity to do a side by side comparison though. I'll dig into this idea further if I get the parts Jeep, the other option would be to go full civilian and try to restore my jeep to original config.

Scott
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svramselaar
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by svramselaar » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:52 am

hello

maybe this site is useful

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/catalog_gateway.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



george
1976 ? M 151 A2 AMG MUTT lost in acsedent
1978 M 416 A1 ( parkhurst ) trailer
1970 m151 A2 FORD BUDD tub
1957 Volvo sugga radio truck
M 274 mule HOME MADE MULE

deputyvaughn
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by deputyvaughn » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:52 am

The Novak site doesn't help as I can not find any info that covers the M151 engine at all. Thanks for replying though.

Scott
Jeep: I may get lost, but I won't get stuck.


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Mr. Recovery
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by Mr. Recovery » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:25 am

This may help a little. :|

151 bellhousing
Image

151 Trans face template.
Image
Image

Image
Daniel J. Wroten
1963 Willys M151,
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deputyvaughn
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by deputyvaughn » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:57 pm

Mr. Recovery.
Those pics are helpful. I'll hopefully be getting the parts jeep around the first week of February. I'll have to see if the bell housing will mate to the T-90 transmission I expect the parts jeep to have. If not I may see if the t-90 bell housing might bolt to the the M151 engine. I wonder if the starter position on the M151 would be a problem with the transfer case or shifters.
I'm probably nuts for even spending any time thinking about this. Being I have the CJ5 front and rear ends the Dana transfer case would at least straighten up the drive shaft alignment and probably produce a smoother ride at road speeds.

Scott
Jeep: I may get lost, but I won't get stuck.

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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by Rickf » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:57 pm

T-90! DUH, I could not remember the number for that tranny to save my life. Where the hell I came up wit T-15 I don't know. Later CJ three speed maybe? Been to long since I worked on them.

Rick
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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Mr. Recovery
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by Mr. Recovery » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:22 pm

I can tell you for sure that the 151 bell housing will "NOT" fit a 3.4 V-6 Camaro motor or a 4.0 V-6 Ford Ranger motor, I have tried it on both! :roll: I carry the pattern to the "pull your own parts yards" in case I come across a old 4cyl with a carb motor in a Ranger or Bronco but, no luck as yet.

Image
Daniel J. Wroten
1963 Willys M151,
American Legion Post 109
NRA Life Member
U.S. Army 1960 - 1966
Colorado Army Nt. Guard 1975 - 1980
Md. Air Nat. Guard (AGR active duty) 1981 - 1995

deputyvaughn
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by deputyvaughn » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:49 am

I'm actually a little surprized that no one has investigated this idea before. I've seen a lot of people on different forums complaining about the m151 transmission. I don't know why no one has ever tried to find a civilian replacement for it. I guess I may be creating a first if I can make it work.....

Scott
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lten1063
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by lten1063 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:07 pm

deputyvaughn wrote:I was hoping that the mating could be done by using the m151 bellhousing and the civilian clutch disk. The M151 is a 134 cubic inch four cylinder same as the civilian. The intake/exaust manifolds and distributor are on opposite sides from each other and the m151 uses the sidedraft instead of downdraft carb. The blocks look essentially the same. I haven't had the opportunity to do a side by side comparison though. I'll dig into this idea further if I get the parts Jeep, the other option would be to go full civilian and try to restore my jeep to original config.

Scott
The M151 series engine was made by Hercules Engines. The Displacement is 141.5 CID and the model # of the engine is L141.

http://herculesengine.com/military.htm

Later Joe
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by militaryjeeper » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:22 pm

I put a mutt motor in both an M38A1 and a GPW 20 some years ago when mutt motors were plentiful. It is not a straightforward deal. I used 1/4 steel plate to make an adaptor between the mutt bellhousing and a t-90 trans. that put the tranny input shaft too far back to catch the pilot bushing so I had to machine a stepped bushing that extended out from the rear of the crank. I used a jeep clutch with a mutt flywheel, pressureplate and throwout bearing. Motor mounts have to be fabricated and then there is the problem of the mutt starter interfering with the existing floorpan. I did this in Panama when where regular jeep motors were hard to come by and I had more time than money.

Long story short, all the work is not worth the gain.
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acudanut
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by acudanut » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:55 am

Why not just put the complete M-151 powerpack into the M38.

Rickf
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Re: cross-mating parts Engine/trans

Post by Rickf » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:55 am

acudanut wrote:Why not just put the complete M-151 powerpack into the M38.
No low range, no captured driveshafts.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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