'43 Willys Jeep

If you have an unrestored WWII jeep, we would like to see pictures, and hear your comments. NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:58 pm

How I Spent my Thanksgiving Holiday
By Ez8

I spent my Thanksgiving Holiday by rebuilding the suspension of my jeep.
The leaf springs you see on there are not correct, but I'm using them as a placeholder until I find some replacements. I like the look of the MD Juan springs, but I'm waiting for someone else to review them, first. Besides, leaf springs are easy to replace.

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MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

Chuck Lutz
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:43 pm

Looking really nice!
One thing to work on now is another chart of all places on frame/sheet metal that you will want "tinning" and then you will have to protect those newly tinned locations from primer and OD with painter's tape. I don't have it, but I think PeeWee was the one who did a nice photo-essay on the locations of the "tinning" for attaching ground/suppression bond straps. Maybe someone has the link?

You would not want to go back to add the tinning and burn off the primer/OD in the surrounding areas unless you have to....now you can do that on any frame sections but after you get the driveline in and are in the wiring phase it is 200% more difficult!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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jonny427
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by jonny427 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:01 pm

Great job documenting the restoration! I'm keen to hear more updates soon :)
MB Serial 250727, DoD 7/17/43

Beers
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Beers » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:39 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:Looking really nice!
One thing to work on now is another chart of all places on frame/sheet metal that you will want "tinning" and then you will have to protect those newly tinned locations from primer and OD with painter's tape. I don't have it, but I think PeeWee was the one who did a nice photo-essay on the locations of the "tinning" for attaching ground/suppression bond straps. Maybe someone has the link?

You would not want to go back to add the tinning and burn off the primer/OD in the surrounding areas unless you have to....now you can do that on any frame sections but after you get the driveline in and are in the wiring phase it is 200% more difficult!
Is this the link? Great photos

http://www.willys-jeep-mb.de/42567/42225.html
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:21 pm

Chuck, thanks for the advice. I'll make that part of my work this weekend. And Beers, thanks for the link. The pictures make the German easier to understand. :lol:

I got the front axle in place as well, but then I decided I might as well replace the knuckle steering bearings while I've got it apart. They should be in by this weekend.

Onward and upward!
MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632


sutts
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by sutts » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:03 am

Nice work Ez8, you're making great progress.

Glad Chuck mentioned the tinning as my frame is due to be blasted/primed and I'd completely forgotton that little detail.

Dave
GPW 68744 29-Sep-42
GPW 123050 01-Jun-43
MB 210793 11-Feb-43

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:54 am

Another weekend, another little job completed.

I got the frame rolling. A milestone for sure. I'm glad I just don't have to wretch my back picking it up any more.
There are still some little details to do before the frame is all back together, but she's getting there.
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MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:20 pm

Well, I've done it now!
Image

I've taken the transmission apart as I move deeper into this project. I'll take the case to the machinist's tomorrow and get it boiled out and hunt for cracks, etc. Then it's a matter of cleaning the parts and putting it back together. No sweat. I did have a brief moment of "Oh no. What have I done??" after seeing the parts on my workbench, but since reassembly is only one step in the TM (Reverse order of dis-assembly) I should be ok! 8)

Despite their age the inner workings look quite good.
Image

Further, here's the number on the lip: B 2-2-43 D, this would make the transmission 23 days younger than the completed MB. I'd still say that's close enough to be considered a factory set.
This further strengthens my inkling that Willys was not an adherent to FIFO inventory management or "just in time" manufacturing. :wink:
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MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

Chuck Lutz
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:25 pm

Since you never know who has been in that T84 before you ....check a few things out:
1) With cluster and cluster shact STILL installed, measure the fore/aft play and post it
2) See if the cluster has floating bushings or pressed-in bushings....
3) Measure the ID of the cluster bushings at the front and rear of the cluster...
4) Measure the diameter of the cluster shaft where the bushings ride...
5) Measure the diameter of the 13 roller bearings in the Main Gear and the ID where they ride...
6) Measure the diameter of the Main Shaft were 2nd gear rides...
7) Measure the ID of 2nd gear where the bushing is...
8) Measure the ID of the two holes in the case for the cluster shaft and the one for the idler shaft...
9) Inspect the front and rear thrust washers for wear and the rear STEEL one....
10) Inspect all the gears for wear and don't be surprised if 1st/Rev at the front where it engages the cluster is beat up from guys trying to downshift into 1st without a 1st gear synchro....pretty common to find that.
11) Inspect the shift forks shift rails, shift plate, shift cane, tower and the gate riveted to the tower for wear...

I can't see from the pics, but I think replacing the blocking rings is a no-brainer, and especially if you find "gold dust" inside the case and they show any wear.. Get them from Ron and order his GASKET KIT (most available are WAY too thick!) and the "spacer shim kit" he has as you MIGHT need it to adjust the "play" when you reassemble it. I prefer front and rear bearings that are SEALED BOTH SIDES and find Marty's tutorial on using sealant to stop transfer of gear oil.

Hey....unless it has 500 miles or less on it, there will be some normal "wear" but if there is a lot of wear, or this trans was troublesome to shift before it was torn down...then it will need some TLC and some parts no doubt.

Post GOOD quality photos of anything you think isn't right on the money....after you read all the stuff on the T84 that has been posted this year.

Get out the TMs and find the specs for all these items....some are in the SNL and state the factory tolerances and the TM 9-803 it you the MINIMUMS before replacement is necessary...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:42 pm

Chuck, thank you for the helpful advice.

By the shim set, I assume you mean this? https://www.vintagejeeps.com/p-637-spac ... -shim.aspx
MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

Chuck Lutz
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:29 am

Yup....that's it.....unless you had a selection of spacers of different thicknesses to use to get the amount of play between the 3rd gear, the 3rd gear blocking ring and the synchro hub/shift plates.....these may come in handy. It's like buying $5.00 worth of insurance and saving you a day or two of hair-pulling that leads to an additional order and shipping costs from RFJP anyway...

Plenty to read on the T84 here on the gee and gustl and echelon1 have given excellent input here! Start with John Barton's sticky posts and then read the rest to get up to speed before you rebuild yours.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:58 am

I've gone through all the pieces and I've got to say the internals of this transmission are in really good shape. No wear on the teeth of any of the gears, wear on the metal seems minimal and most of the measurements, with the exception of the countershaft (which I'll get to in a moment) appear to be in spec. Either this transmission was rebuilt sometime and has had a cushy life (very possible since I think it was used as a ranch car in Wyoming for awhile and then spent the next several years or so not being driven, then I got it) or it was just lucky during its service and was never driven like mad.

Image

The one question I have is in regards to the countershaft measurement. According to the scriptures:
TM 9-1803B, Section II, Part 7. Cleaning, Inspection and Repair, (8) Idle Gear Shaft and Countershaft:

Ridged, scored, or excessively worn, shafts must be replaced. An idle gear shaft measuring under 0.6185 inch or countershaft measuring under 0.7490 inch must be replaced.
My countershaft diameter is .6155" and this would seem to make sense because the interior diameter of the bushings for the countershaft gear is 0.6225. Further, the exterior diameter of the bushings should be no less than 0.759". Am I measuring the wrong dimension?
MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

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Ez8
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Ez8 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:07 pm

Long time no updates. 2014 has been a very busy year. This year I've had a couple of what my work's benefits office calls "significant life events" so the year has been very busy and very expensive (they were both good things!). However, that's over now and I can get back to the jeep. I wanted to keep this little build thread alive if not for my adoring fans, but for a record for myself. It's so interesting to watch this thing come alive on these pages.

Anyway, when I last left off, I had just taken the transmission apart. I did some digging and thought my gears were good, but after looking at them and posting on the technical help page I found out I was getting deeper than I expected. I've listed my threads here for anyone who is following along:

Counter-shaft measurement: Where I discover that the TM contains a misprint on counter-shaft measurement
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=231853

Transmission - First/Reverse gear install: Where I begin to learn that my 1st/Rev gear and main shaft are in bad shape
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=232092

Trainsmission Mainshaft: How much backlash is too much? : Where my eyes are opened on 1st/Rev gear wear
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=232189

Sealed Bearing Part Numbers for t-84 - Where I try to find sealed bearings for my t-84 (I did)
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=232823

t-84 Rebuild (in progress) - Where I inquire about spacer ring clearance
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=234728

I learned that in order to get sealed bearings I had to go to my local industrial supply store as they aren't something that I could easily get from the local auto parts store. I use Kaman Industrial Technology for my bearings, they carry all the major brands and their service is second to none. I ran into a bit of trouble trying to get the sealed bearings because they ran out just before I got there. I was discussing this with one of our maintenance people at work and rattled off the part number of the bearing I wanted and he said "Oh yeah, we ordered that for one of the machines here." Small world.

Anyway, here are some pictures of my transmission build.

Tapping the threads of the bolt holes before priming.
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This is what the case looked like when I got it primed. I use Seymour Red Oxide primer (http://www.amazon.com/Seymour-620-1407- ... B0019K44SE) it's expensive, but the final product can't be beat. Shop around and you can find it for less than half of what amazon wants for it.
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New 1st/Rev gear on the left, original WW2 gear on the right. What a difference! The fit on the mainshaft was much better too.
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Measuring backlash of the 1st/Rev gear on the mainshaft
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The completed transmission (sans top cover)
Image
MB# 215159 D.O.D 2-25-43
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=209632

Fortyeight2A
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by Fortyeight2A » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:03 am

Should I ask where the wavy washer was when you took the tranny apart? Oh, wait--you said it looked like it had been opened before. Never mind. 8)
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thidisbogus
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Re: '43 Willys Jeep

Post by thidisbogus » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Good to see you are back at it. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

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