Restoring GPW 14518

Feb, 1942 - GPW1 thru end of first contract, April, 1942 - GPW15000 NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:23 am

It occured to me to re-use the snap ring from the old rebuild. It looked good and solid. PN 7059. SO I am back in business.

Here is everything dry fitted without the roller bearings, and the front bearing not fully seated.
dryfit input output shafts.JPG
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Being concerned about the interference between the front of the output shaft and the back recess of the output shaft where the roller bearings go, I measured everything in static mode and find I will have .071" spacing between the end and the recess. Don't ask me to draw that out :?
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)


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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:51 am

d. Install Main Drive Gear Assembly (fig. 13). Place the other
blocking ring in the synchronizer and install the main drive gear assembly
in the case.

JB: "Now assemble the input shaft bearing with snap ring goes on…shielded side toward the case, the snap ring holds it on…Now is usually when I call my daughter because my fat fingers won’t fit in to install roller bearings in back end of input grease them up.. she doesn’t like the icky grease!!! the last one has to slide in from top.. sharp needle nose… the snap ring that holds them in doesn’t really touch them.. never taken that snap ring out.. I guess if you buy a new input shaft it will come without it.. It's a little tricky to install.. pliers.. screwdrivers, etc..again- you need to be careful now.. if you drop or set it down too hard.. the bearings will fall out.. now comes another tricky part… put other blocking ring in place.. use grease to hold in in synchro or put it on back of input shaft and line up notches again..You now need to slide the rear bearing on to line up output shaft.. after the spacer and oil baffle.. snap ring is already on.. If you get fit correct first time.. it will look like this, if not…one of the rollers fell out…they won’t mesh.. you’ll be able to tell.. because you’ll feel it grinding etc.. gentle tapping on the bearing may be necessary to finish.. I try to insert the output shaft tip.. into the roller bearings, and them tap the front bearing into case...keeps the rollers from falling.. hold on to both shafts from now on while moving… if either moves out.. the roller bearing or blocking ring can fall out of place.. with both shafts in place.. some people wire them ..to hold them.."

Oz: As you can see from the image above, I wanted to check a few things before installing the input shaft. I did not want to get into issues before at least measuring the fitment. Again, Installing those snap rings is a bugger.

I put some bearing grease in the recess where the bearings go behind the thin snap ring. That went in very easily by hand. I installed all 13 bearings one at a time. The 13th one has to slide in between two bearings in the open gap. You can't press it in between the two, you have to insert it lengthwise into the groove. I found the use of a shifter rail keeps everything together.
bearing install tool.JPG
13 bearings in.JPG
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Here are two shots with the input and output shafts installed before compressing everything. DON"T FORGET THE SECOND BLOCKING RING!
mainshaft in 1.JPG
mainshaft in 2.JPG
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:26 am

To seat the front bearing into the recess, I used the remnants of an old WC12 wheel bearing so I did not damage the bearing as I gently tapped it home.
seating the bearing.JPG
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After I have the two shafts installed, turning freely, with the rear bearing clamped to the case I find the hi/Inter gear will not spin freely. That tells me the rear blocking ring is snug aginst the gear cone preventing it from turning. The output shaft needs to slide aft a bit to fix this.
I guess this is where the shimming comes into play.

If I shim at the rear bearing, the shaft will sit farther into the case making the problem worse. Do I need a thinner spacer or snap ring? Hopefully when i install the main shaft transfer gear and nut it will draw the shaft aft to provide enough clearance. THOUGHTS!

no space.png
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:57 am

Although not a step in the TM Transmission Assembly, I am installing the Main Shaft Gear, 7722, The washer, 356511-S, and the nut, 356148-S. I am doing this so I can check the end play and make sure the Hi/Inter gear will spin freely and I have some play between the blocking ring and the cone on the gear.


Here are the components ready to torque. There is a great discussion on how to set the torque on the nut:

viewtopic.php?t=144645
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IMG_5954.png
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I love these small details on the GPWs
F script hex nut.png
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:16 am

I set the torque wrench to 50 lbs. I was able to get the nut torqued to that with the cotter pin hole just visible. When I do final assembly, I'll be able to add a few ft-lbs and everything will be fine.

The input and output shaft spin independent of one another, and the hi/inter gear will spin freely on the shaft with the blocking ring not engaged with 0.006" space between the shoulder of the output shaft and the back of the gear.

I now have 0.006" spacing between the two, and will gain a few more when final torque is applied. Unless I'm oblivious to something, which is not an impossibility, :shock: I think this is good.

Can anyone see anything wrong here please?
Hi Int gear spacing.png
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:45 am

e. Install Countershaft. Raise the countershaft gear into position.
Making sure the three washers are in line, push the countershaft into
the case and tap the lock plate between the countershaft and idle
gear shaft.

JB: "Just be careful.. you’re ready to raise the countershaft gear.. you can’t get the input shaft in with the countershaft in place.. so don’t try to do that before now.. Here’s what I do…there are other methods. I turn the case on its side with the idler gear down..it helps locate the Countershaft gear..I use the rolling head pry bar again..from the front..It is sharply tapered so it can usuall get thru the thrustwashers..which settled with gear..I slowly and gently try to get it all the way through..Turn the case completely upside down..Turn the input shaft…that helps center and line up the countershaft gear and washers..
Now the trick is to replace the prybar with the mainshaft..Insert from rear…line up notches for lockplate again..Some people have a special tool machined..probably easier to insert mainshaft. As you slide the tool out….either way..? you can do it without any tool…
When case is upside down..if you turn the gears..the countershaft will center itself..Put lockplate in place..leave mainshaft out just a hair..after front end is lined up..tap both shafts with hammer. if notches are not lined up exactly..the lockplate may turn them into position..or you may need to turn the shafts…look at the neat “F” on extra lockplate..Rotate the gearbox upright, be careful that the gears don't slip out . Now if you have lined everything up…it should look like this."
GBOX-5new.jpg
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Oz: I simply rotated the case upside down being careful not to dislodge anything and kept the Phillips screwdriver in place. A few gentle rolls of the Main Shaft Gear on the back allowed the cluster gear to "seat" itself in proper alignment. I used the shaft of the driver to lift and jostle the two rear washers in place.

CAREFUL NOW: Keep pressure on the Phillips screwdriver from the front WHILE gently sliding the counter gear shaft against the head of the driver. You will feel the washer slipping into place and the shaft slides freely into the cluster and out the front. Just keep the head of the screwdriver "mated with light pressure" to the shaft and nothing will slip out. Don't forget to align the spline for the lock in the rear and make sure the idle gear shaft is out and aligned also.
counter shaft jig.JPG
lock slots.JPG
shaft lock.JPG
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:17 pm

PLACE HOLDER FOR COMMENTS FROM ANOTHER THREAD ON SHIMMING:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=276088&hilit=transmission

1. The input shaft with direct/3rd gear is fixed & not adjustable.
2. The mainshaft has 2nd gear, baulking ring/s, drive & second hub & selector sleeve circlipped in a fixed position & is non adjustable.
3. It also has 1/R sliding gear.
4. Then there is a circlip, spacer/s & THE ball bearing.
5. This ball bearing's position on the mainshaft is adjustable but once mainshaft position is adjusted the bearing is locked in place
6. Decreasing the shim spacer thickness moves the mainshaft rearwards & increasing moves the mainshaft forward inside the case
BUT doing either of these things moves all the parts mentioned in 2 because their mainshaft position is fixed.
7. Those things in 6 are used as an adjustment for baulking ring positioning/optimum operation plus we don't want the mainshaft bottoming in the input shaft needle roller recess.
8. To check for correct adjustment we assemble all the needed bits to the main shaft through to the circlip, spacer & bearing.
9. We fix all these to the mainshaft by torquing the main drive gear & washer to them with the castellated nut.
10. Now we clamp the mainshaft & bearing tightly in the transmission case recess.
NO SHAFT or BEARING MOVEMENT either way except oil clearance....GET IT!
11. Check to ensure the things mentioned in 7.
12. If too tight, remove bearing & appropriate amount of spacer between bearing & circlip. Too loose then add spacer between bearing & circlip.
13. Once correctly adjusted remove the bearing clamp & bolt up the transfer case, refit the gear, washer & castellated nut.
Remember the bearing was clamped tight in the transmission case when your adjustments were completed properly....it needs to be 'exactly' the same now.
14. If there is ANY bearing movement of concern it will only be rearward if the transfer case cavity is not acting exactly the same as the set-up clamp was.
15. Depending on how much this mainshaft bearing movement forward & rear is means your mainshaft position inside the transmission case becomes variable between spot on when up against the transmission housing & looser than you set things at when right back against the transfer case housing. That is not desirable.
16. With a dial gauge measure this movement & ONLY shim the transfer case bearing recess.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

gpwmke
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by gpwmke » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:34 am

Doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:30 am

gpwmke wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:34 am
Doing a great job. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the support. I am still not satisfied with the inter/rev gear spacing. It wants to bind with the blocking ring. I might need to use a thinner spacer to move the shaft back to create a bit more "slop"
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:43 am

My small bag of shift pate pins arrived. I checked the size at 0.750" long and 0.375" diameter with a 45 bevel on the ends which should allow them to seat close to final depth.

I had to prep the orafice with a small file to remove any deformation in the lip and clean out any debris. I put a small but of assembly lube on the pin and drove it in with a brass drift and hammer.
shift plate pin.JPG
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I was only able to seat it to a depth which provided 0.216" of the pin extending. I was hoping to achieve 0.200" as with the one in the other case.
shift plate pin protrusion.JPG
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The RFJP shifter plate hole was slightly under size, about 0.371" I used a round file matching the radius of the hole and some 220 grit SP to make the plate fit the pin. You could feel the "burrs" or rough spot in the plate hole initially, and after a few minutes of light filing, being careful not to elongate the hole the filing smoothed out. I turned to 220 grit to get the plate to "slip" fit on the pin with some lube.
shift plate hole undersize.JPG
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WHen moved side to side the plate does not drag, but has light friction on the pin.
shift plate washer.JPG
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The cover fits on with gasket in place and seems not to interfere with the pin. I'll verify this later after the gasket seats with perhaps 0.002" for crush.
trans cover with gasket.JPG
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:44 am

I have 4 more of these pins if anyone runs into an issue with a missing pin let me know. I'll send you one.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:57 am

From step 12 in the placeholder post above:

12. If too tight, remove bearing & appropriate amount of spacer between bearing & circlip. Too loose then add spacer between bearing & circlip.

I have everything put together. Both bearings are installed to their limit i their recess and I clamped them together. The shaft is too tight and both blocking rings have enough friction on the cones that the two shafts are connected by their friction with the synchro in the center or Neutral position.

That means Things are too tight.

I will disassemble everything and either use a thinner spacer or take about 0.015" off the spacer and try again. If 0.015 is too much, I can add a shim from the RFJP shim kit I have.
clamped and torqued.JPG
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:07 am

Attempt No. 1

I removed the shaft lock and replaced the counter gear shaft with the Phillips. I used my bearing puller to remove the rear bearing. This way i don't have to remove all the snap rings.
rear bearing removal.JPG
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The spacer I used is RFJP and it is 0.169" thick. I measured several different places on the ring.
rfjp spacer .JPG
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The original spacer is 0.1555" thick. I used a piece of 220 grit SP and carefully surfaced both sides using a figure 8 motion and brought the spacer to 0.154" This gives me 0.015 to work with between the two.
original spacer.JPG
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Even by removing 0.015" I have only minimal movement in the blocking rings with lots of friction on the Inter gear with the synchro disengaged. I feel with this friction I will quickly wear out the raised grooves on the blocking rings and they will be in the same situation as when I started (Completely worn off)

I will take off another 0.015" and check again. But first I have to clear my mind with a few rounds of World of Tanks.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:57 am

By the way, for those of you doing the T84 rebuild, I find Greendot 319's video on the T-84 very helpful. He has a handful of them and I recommend you watch them all.

This one discusses shimming and made the light come on for me....I think... :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFzc9YDi9z8
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Restoring GPW 14518

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:23 am

My plan is to use the RFJP snap ring. It is 0.080 thick and the original one 0.090. That will give me another 0.010" I am tired of fighting those snap rings. Getting them off is not so bad, but putting them back on is horrible. The rounded end pliers just don't have the strength for this job, and the ring ends just slip off. Piston ring pliers are not sturdy enough to hold the rings open. I purchased a pair of vintage tractor snap ring pliers with flat serrated tips for $5.99 8) . These should be easier. Hope they get here quick.
s-l1600.jpg
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)


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