Restoring GPW 14518
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Restoring GPW 14518
I've owned GPW 14518 for about a year. Now that I'm 99% done with building my home I am starting on a restoration. I'll post some more images of the details as time goes by. It is frame GPW 14518 from about 9 Apr 42, no data tags, and a Ford script body that needs a lot of restoration work. The engine is GPW 67853, which is about October 42. Many of the accessories are cobbled together from various other Jeeps. as I dig through it, I'll post more info.
For now I took the body off, stripped all the bits and pieces off of it and bagged and tagged everything. The tub was previously blasted, bondoed, pop rivetede and over-plated, so I took it to a blaster and had all the Light A Bum Cigar removed down to the metal and had it sprayed with two coats of an alkyd in yellow zink chromate color. THis will keep it from flash rusting while I tend to the frame and drivetrain.
I stripped the engine of its accessories, mounted it on an engine stand and plan on taking it completely apart, inspecting and dtermining where to go from here. It was previously rebuilt and sat in a Ford dealership for 20 years collecting dust. I don't know the rebuilder, so I want to mike everything before deciding what to do. THe cylinders are .080 over . They walls look nice with a strong crosshatching from a 20 year old hone with no or few miles.
Here is an image of the frame as it sits now. I need to tend to steering, suspension and some frame issues.
For now I took the body off, stripped all the bits and pieces off of it and bagged and tagged everything. The tub was previously blasted, bondoed, pop rivetede and over-plated, so I took it to a blaster and had all the Light A Bum Cigar removed down to the metal and had it sprayed with two coats of an alkyd in yellow zink chromate color. THis will keep it from flash rusting while I tend to the frame and drivetrain.
I stripped the engine of its accessories, mounted it on an engine stand and plan on taking it completely apart, inspecting and dtermining where to go from here. It was previously rebuilt and sat in a Ford dealership for 20 years collecting dust. I don't know the rebuilder, so I want to mike everything before deciding what to do. THe cylinders are .080 over . They walls look nice with a strong crosshatching from a 20 year old hone with no or few miles.
Here is an image of the frame as it sits now. I need to tend to steering, suspension and some frame issues.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- 17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
I spent the day removing the engine and attaching it to a stand. I removed the head and pan to begin a detailed inspection. I will probably remove everything and check tolerances and then if everything seems good, I'll reassemble with a new gasket set. I don't know the reputation of the engine machinist, so I want to verify before assuming this is good to go. It was also erroneously painted OD rather than gray, so I will rectify that issue.
The block looks to have been repaired just above the dizzy port where these tended to crack. I hope this is a suitable repair, I have no experience with evaluating this. Here is the cylinder head. Its a nice Ford marked version and looked to have been decked during the rebuild. The top of the block has two spots where pitting was. It looks like the decking took care of most of the problems, but there are two areas that remain. The cylinders show a fresh honing with nice cross hatching, no lip and all of the carbon wipes off on the walls, the top of the cylinders and the valve faces. I think it was rebuilt and not run very much. The bottom end looks very nice with lots of F marked items evident and perhaps some new components. I'll know more when I disassemble everything. The pan did not have much "gunk" in it, but I found a few "flakes", not metalik, perhaps some grit from earlier.
The block looks to have been repaired just above the dizzy port where these tended to crack. I hope this is a suitable repair, I have no experience with evaluating this. Here is the cylinder head. Its a nice Ford marked version and looked to have been decked during the rebuild. The top of the block has two spots where pitting was. It looks like the decking took care of most of the problems, but there are two areas that remain. The cylinders show a fresh honing with nice cross hatching, no lip and all of the carbon wipes off on the walls, the top of the cylinders and the valve faces. I think it was rebuilt and not run very much. The bottom end looks very nice with lots of F marked items evident and perhaps some new components. I'll know more when I disassemble everything. The pan did not have much "gunk" in it, but I found a few "flakes", not metalik, perhaps some grit from earlier.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
As far as the repair to the block above the dizzy goes, that could be body filler, JB Weld, some kind of "welding" or who knows what. The gold standard of crack repairs is the "Lock-'n-Stitch" method. Look 'em up...what is there is an unknown and how long it will last or if it is only a cosmetic repair, we don't know. Start with removing the paint and post another photo after you wire wheel it to see if is even a solid or some crumbly unknown substance.
The pitting in the gasket surface of the block is not a good thing, but others who have had that same problem may say it will be OK.
If it the block is 0.080 OVER, you are in the area many guys choose to bore out, sleeve and rebore to STD. It will then last as long as you own it.
Finding "grit" in the oil pan is a message....you might want to consider stripping the block down and having it pressure tested and all the oil galleys roto-rooted out and flushed to remove any OTHER grit which will score and destroy your bearings.
As a rule of thumb....if you check out the head from the side, you will see the side has a 3/16" +/- "ridge" around it....if it has been milled to much, the valves will be close to the tops of the pistons and if the block has been decked much that only adds to the possibility of a meeting in the middle, so to speak!
The pitting in the gasket surface of the block is not a good thing, but others who have had that same problem may say it will be OK.
If it the block is 0.080 OVER, you are in the area many guys choose to bore out, sleeve and rebore to STD. It will then last as long as you own it.
Finding "grit" in the oil pan is a message....you might want to consider stripping the block down and having it pressure tested and all the oil galleys roto-rooted out and flushed to remove any OTHER grit which will score and destroy your bearings.
As a rule of thumb....if you check out the head from the side, you will see the side has a 3/16" +/- "ridge" around it....if it has been milled to much, the valves will be close to the tops of the pistons and if the block has been decked much that only adds to the possibility of a meeting in the middle, so to speak!
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Chuck, thanks for those recommendations. I'll get on those as I move along in the engine disassembly. Appreciate it.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Well, I would be losing a lot of sleep if this was the "matching numbers" motor for GPW-14518...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Its actually GPW 67853, so a replacement engine from a few month later. In any case I wire brushed the repair. My pic does not show it well, but it is not JB weld, but very solid silver color metal. Difficult to scrape. I found the receipt for engine repair and the last owner was charged $450 for engine block repair separately from the other work done.Chuck Lutz wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:39 amWell, I would be losing a lot of sleep if this was the "matching numbers" motor for GPW-14518...
Heres a pic of the spot after wire brushing. The head looks to have a nice bit of the lip on it. It appears not much was shaved off. As for the .080 bore, should I spend the money now and resleve and get STD pistons and rings, or run it for a few years? It will not get heavy use, but I do not want to have to redo this in a year or two. Thoughts?
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- 17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Began attacking the transmission and transfer case. I have it isolated on the mount, drained with the fluids and used an impact gun to remove the nuts on the yokes. PN 356184-S Nut, Hex, 7/8-16
The transmission case appears to be an early one with the filler hole on the passenger side. I was happy to find that detail. The breather assembly for the transfer case, PN GP 7754, is nicely F marked as well. The transfere case is nicely Ford marked. I'll dig into this further. I still have crap piled all over my workshop as I slowly get organized, so I'll have to do some rearranging before taking these components off for detail work.
The transmission case appears to be an early one with the filler hole on the passenger side. I was happy to find that detail. The breather assembly for the transfer case, PN GP 7754, is nicely F marked as well. The transfere case is nicely Ford marked. I'll dig into this further. I still have crap piled all over my workshop as I slowly get organized, so I'll have to do some rearranging before taking these components off for detail work.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- 17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Here is a nice image of the engine number: GPW<->67863
And here is the Frame Number: +GPW14518+
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
First off, that edge on the head is about as big as any I have ever seen. I just found the drawing:
Ah...the age-old quandrum….do I fix it NOW or assembly it, pray for a few years of solid use and then be ready to go "all in" on a complete rebuild? Hoping of course that nothing catastrophic happened to destroy the block/internals.
1) there is no real guarantee that just putting it together will give you years of good service. With that in mind, al the money spent to "fix" it for now could have been applied to a complete SURVEY and subsequent rebuild if any repairs could be done.
2) It is partially torn down now and on the bench now, so for me...the only consideration I would have in doing the complete job including sleeving, a complete BALANCE job, new valves/guides/springs, a rebuild of the genny/starter if needed as well as bushings in the dizzy and adjustment on a machine (checking what RPMs the centrifugal advance springs/weights are doing at what RPM)….is MONEY.
#3 If it was mine, I would do EVERYTHING at one time....I thought the $2,000.00 it cost me to have all that done to a GPW motor in 2002/2003 was expensive....now it might barely cover the machining after cleaning everything up....I would still have to assemble it....and have NO guarantee from the builder/shop.
Ah...the age-old quandrum….do I fix it NOW or assembly it, pray for a few years of solid use and then be ready to go "all in" on a complete rebuild? Hoping of course that nothing catastrophic happened to destroy the block/internals.
1) there is no real guarantee that just putting it together will give you years of good service. With that in mind, al the money spent to "fix" it for now could have been applied to a complete SURVEY and subsequent rebuild if any repairs could be done.
2) It is partially torn down now and on the bench now, so for me...the only consideration I would have in doing the complete job including sleeving, a complete BALANCE job, new valves/guides/springs, a rebuild of the genny/starter if needed as well as bushings in the dizzy and adjustment on a machine (checking what RPMs the centrifugal advance springs/weights are doing at what RPM)….is MONEY.
#3 If it was mine, I would do EVERYTHING at one time....I thought the $2,000.00 it cost me to have all that done to a GPW motor in 2002/2003 was expensive....now it might barely cover the machining after cleaning everything up....I would still have to assemble it....and have NO guarantee from the builder/shop.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Michael O.
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Oz, nice project. I have GPW-66380...your engine is close!
Michael O’Connell
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Chuck, you make some great points. its a shame the previous rebuilder did not resleeve it, but so be it. I think I will check all of the machining tolerances between the bearings to verify that correct machine work was done, and then send it to the machinist for a re-sleeving. I agree, in the end I will be in a better (non-worrying) situation.
You will notice also that the crankshaft is not war-time, rather one of the aftermarkets from Kaiser Willy's. I doubt I can find an F marked crank at this point. Am open to consider it though.
I probably won't have to get everything machined again, so less cost at the machinist, but with the resleeving, new pistons and rings and perhaps a new crank I will be at or above total machine work cost anyway. It's a great hobby ain't it
Thanks for the image of the measurements.
You will notice also that the crankshaft is not war-time, rather one of the aftermarkets from Kaiser Willy's. I doubt I can find an F marked crank at this point. Am open to consider it though.
I probably won't have to get everything machined again, so less cost at the machinist, but with the resleeving, new pistons and rings and perhaps a new crank I will be at or above total machine work cost anyway. It's a great hobby ain't it
Thanks for the image of the measurements.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- 17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Michael, nice to hear from you. Close brother engines eh? I hope this will actually be a project that I finish. I'm tired of starting, moving, selling to downsize and doing it all over again. I'm here to stay.
I know, man plans and God laughs!
I know, man plans and God laughs!
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- 17thAirborne
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
A little progress on the drive train today. I removed the transmission and transfer case for further dissasembly. Here are some shots of progress, which halted due to the lack of 1 1/8" socket to remove the rear castelated nut on the main drive spline.
The top cover has AA marked bolts. According to the "F-mark" spreadsheet on jeepdraw, they should be "F" marked. Thoughts? I removed the top cover to get a peek inside. One gear has some teeth damage. Will get better pics later, and also have my TM open to ID parts properly for the post.
Of note I did not find the small Spring Washer listed in the Parts TM. I suspect it's easy to obtain, and hopefylly not ground up in the bottom of the case. I love the nice "F" marks throughout. Here is the rear cover removed.
The top cover has AA marked bolts. According to the "F-mark" spreadsheet on jeepdraw, they should be "F" marked. Thoughts? I removed the top cover to get a peek inside. One gear has some teeth damage. Will get better pics later, and also have my TM open to ID parts properly for the post.
Of note I did not find the small Spring Washer listed in the Parts TM. I suspect it's easy to obtain, and hopefylly not ground up in the bottom of the case. I love the nice "F" marks throughout. Here is the rear cover removed.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
This is what you need:
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Restoring GPW 14518
Thank you. Will do. I see RFJP does not carry them.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)
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