Is this a British Airborne Jeep?

[70th Division]

Hi Emil,
Are you still on this forum? If so, I am keen to discover if there are any rebuild plates with dates on your Jeep. I have a similar ex-British Army Jeep, but the data plates have been removed.
Regards,
Tony
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IMG_4015.JPG

Hello,


Here is a picture of some Airborne jeeps with windshields and rifle holders mounted like your jeep.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishje ... 618621333/


Best Regards,
Ray

[msdt]

Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. The reason I was interested in Emil's Jeep is that it has an original quick release steering wheel, and a horn button on the dashboard. It also appears to have British Army rebuild plates. My Jeep has both these features (well, the appropriate holes for the horn button). However, it has had a Class 1 rebuild, resulting in a Willys body on a Ford chassis. The problem is that the Ministry of Supply WV3 plate, and the REME (I believe) rebuild plate on the chassis rail have been removed, so I don't know the date of the rebuild.
I don't think it is an original WW2 airborne Jeep, but suspect the wheel and horn button have been added after the Class 1 rebuild during service in the 1950's. I am trying to discover if anyone has a similar Jeep with data plates that would help with this.
The British ERM is 49 YH 12, chassis number GPW 104712. I only got the ERM a few months ago, due the Royal Logistics Corps now being able to do a chassis number search.
I have attached some photos showing features from the British Army rebuild (round rear handles, seamless wing, Butler lights).
Cheers,
Tony

[70th Division]

Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. The reason I was interested in Emil's Jeep is that it has an original quick release steering wheel, and a horn button on the dashboard. It also appears to have British Army rebuild plates. My Jeep has both these features (well, the appropriate holes for the horn button). However, it has had a Class 1 rebuild, resulting in a Willys body on a Ford chassis. The problem is that the Ministry of Supply WV3 plate, and the REME (I believe) rebuild plate on the chassis rail have been removed, so I don't know the date of the rebuild.
I don't think it is an original WW2 airborne Jeep, but suspect the wheel and horn button have been added after the Class 1 rebuild during service in the 1950's. I am trying to discover if anyone has a similar Jeep with data plates that would help with this.
The British ERM is 49 YH 12, chassis number GPW 104712. I only got the ERM a few months ago, due the Royal Logistics Corps now being able to do a chassis number search.
I have attached some photos showing features from the British Army rebuild (round rear handles, seamless wing, Butler lights).
Cheers,
Tony
IMG_4004.JPGIMG_4005.JPGIMG_4007.JPGIMG_4010.JPGIMG_4024.JPG

Hello Tony,

Great pics !!

That is too bad the plates are missing, but having the frame number is important !!
Did the RLC mention where your jeep may have served , like with the BAOR ?

I have a British that was saved from a falling down shed in the USA in New York state, and it has some amazing info on the data plates.
Over a year later I randomly found the missing engine, that also had a REME rebuild tag on it.
This jeep was missing the engine, hood, front fenders, as someone took those parts.
It does have rebuild tags on the frame, but it was rebuilt by 22 Heavy, and a tag on the dash says a rebuilt engine was placed in this jeep belonging to the 5th Armored Detachment. (22 Heavy, and the 5th RTR were part of the British 7th Armored Division)
It was a jeep belonging to the Desert Rats, 5th RTR, and on the key card says it was a BAOR jeep, putting it into Germany postwar.
The 22 Heavy workshop was in Hamburg, Germany, and the engine rebuild tag was from a British rebuild facility in Northern Germany.
The jeep is a 1943 GPW, with what I thought was a Willys ACM1 body put back on it.
So I checked the ACM number on the body, and it matched the Ford serial number range for later 1943, and matched the GPW serial number range for that production time.
It also has those strange British rear body handles.
Nobody has yet figured that out as to why the were made to replace the better US ones ?

From mid Oct. '43 to late Jan. '44 Ford did use Willys style ACM1 bodies from the factory, which I didn't know when I got the jeep, and also I just learned yesterday, from earlier in this post, that they used the early Willys hood with the bolted on deflector with those ACM1 bodies on those 1943 Ford GPW jeeps, until the ACM2 bodies were in production, which then Willys and Ford used, and both also used the Ford marked hood on all later production.
Ford sent their hood stamping equipment and machinery to ACM, and ACM took over body production for FORD, like they were always doing for Willys.All Willys jeeps after this switch over will have Ford F marked hoods on them from the factory, even though they were now being manufactured by ACM, American Central Manufacturing.

But, I was just looking at a picture on the British War Jeep website, and saw a picture dated from January,1943 in England, showing a GPW with the early ACM1 Willys hood on it, so that is very interesting, maybe they used some ACM1 tubs and hoods earlier than known.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishje ... 618621333/


Check you ACM number on your drivers side triangle shaped body gussett, as that body could be a late 1943 ACM1 GPW body .

Maybe just your frame was swapped out during rebuild, of an Airborne jeep ?

Take a close look at your frame number to confirm it is early 1943, and not a later 1943, if the 0 is actually a 1, it would fall into the late 43 range.


Best Regards,
Ray

[msdt]

Thanks, Ray - interesting info. And your British example also has the rounded rear handles! Actually, I remember from when I had them off that they were of thicker gauge than the original ones.
I am sure the chassis number is right, at 104712. This is also what the British Army recorded on the key card. I believe that number is around March, 1943. The Willys body number is 115945.
I have always assumed that the body has been swapped, but if there is a possibility that it was supplied from the factory that way, it rather changes all the speculation regarding the Jeep's history!
The missing tag on the front chassis rail exactly matches examples I have seen of REME Class 1 rebuild tags in brass, many of which seem to be 1949/1950/1951. What would be interesting to know is whether the REME Class 1 rebuilds were carried out on each Jeep as a unit, or as a factory process involving total dismantling and refurbishment of each part resulting in assembling vehicles from random parts.
Have attached the key card, showing the Jeep (or chassis?) marked as ex-Canadian. Sadly cannot read the rubbed out unit bit. And where is the 'BRN' at disposal?
Cheers,
Tony

[70th Division]

Thanks, Ray - interesting info. And your British example also has the rounded rear handles! Actually, I remember from when I had them off that they were of thicker gauge than the original ones.
I am sure the chassis number is right, at 104712. This is also what the British Army recorded on the key card. I believe that number is around March, 1943. The Willys body number is 115945.
I have always assumed that the body has been swapped, but if there is a possibility that it was supplied from the factory that way, it rather changes all the speculation regarding the Jeep's history!
The missing tag on the front chassis rail exactly matches examples I have seen of REME Class 1 rebuild tags in brass, many of which seem to be 1949/1950/1951. What would be interesting to know is whether the REME Class 1 rebuilds were carried out on each Jeep as a unit, or as a factory process involving total dismantling and refurbishment of each part resulting in assembling vehicles from random parts.
Have attached the key card, showing the Jeep (or chassis?) marked as ex-Canadian. Sadly cannot read the rubbed out unit bit. And where is the 'BRN' at disposal?
Cheers,
Tony
kcYH304.jpg

Hello Tony,

That is some very interesting information on that card.
So your jeep was a Canadian Jeep, possibly a Canadian Airborne jeep, that will open up a new set of clues to look for, as there were differences from the factory on Canadian jeeps, as opposed to US and British contract jeeps.
That will take some research to remember what they were.
Hopefully some Airborne Jeep owners will comment on this post, as well as Canadian Airborne jeep owners.

The card says the your WW2 hood number was 4284471, and as a Canadian jeep, it would have been painted on the hood sides like British jeeps,
but would have been CM4284471.
But not always, as sometimes the C wasn't added, leaving it M4284471.
Now it will be fun looking for pics of Canadian Airborne jeeps, for your jeep with that hood number !


https://www.flickr.com/photos/139397156 ... 5719134450
You can start here !
British Army Jeep Research !
This is the best website ever for British jeeps, and is a huge treasure trove resource for British jeeps with hundreds of pictures !!
Hopefully Nick will see your jeep and be able to shed some light on its history.
He is a G member.

The BRN is a mystery that needs to be solved as a disposal location or relating to where the jeep was serving.
Plus the numbers after BRN.
If you look at the jeep above this one, it was disposed of from BAOR, (British Army of the Rhine) that would place that jeep in Germany, but I don't know what the BRN symbolizes. If we can find that another clue would be revealed !

Best Regards,
Ray

[msdt]

Thanks Ray. Actually I have already been posting on British Army Jeep Research. While doing that I found the pic of Emil's Jeep, which lead to me posting here.
When I rubbed the bonnet (hood!) down, I am sure I only found a US number (20111900-S). This either supports the full dismantling rebuild, or that the bonnet has been swapped at some point.
BTW - I have owned this Jeep since 1972, and I bought it from a Welsh hill farm, so it's not been interfered with by other enthusiasts.
Cheers,
Tony

[70th Division]

Thanks Ray. Actually I have already been posting on British Army Jeep Research. While doing that I found the pic of Emil's Jeep, which lead to me posting here.
When I rubbed the bonnet (hood!) down, I am sure I only found a US number (20111900-S). This either supports the full dismantling rebuild, or that the bonnet has been swapped at some point.
BTW - I have owned this Jeep since 1972, and I bought it from a Welsh hill farm, so it's not been interfered with by other enthusiasts.
Cheers,
Tony

Hello Tony,

WoW !
That is a great lineage of owning your jeep, no wonder it still looks factory fresh !!
I would say that with the Airborne features you have on the jeep, and it came that way from the farm, it was an Airborne jeep in its distant past.
And in 1972 that past was not very distant !

I was looking at the British Army jeep sight and even saw a Canadian jeep, with the factory USA number on the hood still.
I was also looking at all the great pics of SAS jeeps that were a different configuration that the normal Airborne jeeps, and they had quite a few of them pictured.

I may be a long shot, but stranger things have happened, have you thought about locating the farm you bought the jeep from in 1972, and seeing if anyone is still there that remembers the jeep and ask them some questions or even if they have any pictures of it when they first got it ?
Maybe they have the data plates and info on where they got the jeep originally ?
Tuareg on this forum, has a jeep project in Spain, and he has actually located former owners from the 1970's and earlier and they gave him pictures of his jeep from back then.
He was able to locate the names of all the owners going back to when the jeep was first imported into Spain in the late 1940's.

You may be able to get some more background on your jeep with that farm, and it would be a fun effort.


Best Regards,
Ray

[msdt]

Hi Ray,
I have been thinking of driving the Jeep back to the farm I got it from. Actually, it belonged to a friend of the farmer's son, so he is who I should speak to if he is still around or traceable. They didn't use this Jeep much, their real 'toy' was one that they used around the farm for extreme 4-WD antics. My present Jeep was bought as a replacement due to the clutch on the other one seizing one winter. They had no sooner got mine, when it surprisingly threw the centre main end bearing cap, knocking it through the side of the engine block. It was then left and vandalised by lads staying in a local youth hostel. They tried to push it into a stream, but it hit a tree on the way down the bank, and that was how it was when I first saw it.
It may have previously served with lifeguards on a nearby beach, somebody told me they remembered a Jeep on the beach in the 1960's. The Jeep was red when I got it, with a home-made white hardtop, and on the rear corner of the hardtop were 2 bits of scaffold tube welded on. These could have supported a flag-pole. Sadly, I didn't document all this with photographs back in 1972!
The original purchase was for 3 Jeeps, the 'good one' I still have, the beaten up one it replaced, and another bit of a rusty wreck on a nearby hill farm above the sea. Those were the days, £40 for the 3! A good buy even in 1972!
Cheers,
Tony

[70th Division]

Hi Ray,
I have been thinking of driving the Jeep back to the farm I got it from. Actually, it belonged to a friend of the farmer's son, so he is who I should speak to if he is still around or traceable. They didn't use this Jeep much, their real 'toy' was one that they used around the farm for extreme 4-WD antics. My present Jeep was bought as a replacement due to the clutch on the other one seizing one winter. They had no sooner got mine, when it surprisingly threw the centre main end bearing cap, knocking it through the side of the engine block. It was then left and vandalised by lads staying in a local youth hostel. They tried to push it into a stream, but it hit a tree on the way down the bank, and that was how it was when I first saw it.
It may have previously served with lifeguards on a nearby beach, somebody told me they remembered a Jeep on the beach in the 1960's. The Jeep was red when I got it, with a home-made white hardtop, and on the rear corner of the hardtop were 2 bits of scaffold tube welded on. These could have supported a flag-pole. Sadly, I didn't document all this with photographs back in 1972!
The original purchase was for 3 Jeeps, the 'good one' I still have, the beaten up one it replaced, and another bit of a rusty wreck on a nearby hill farm above the sea. Those were the days, £40 for the 3! A good buy even in 1972!
Cheers,
Tony

Hello Tony,

What a great story of finding your jeeps !!
What a great price for your jeeps !!
Well done
I remember 1972 like it was yesterday, but was only 3 years old !

That would be a great idea to try and locate the seller, and see if you can get any additional information about your jeep, pictures, and its history pre-1972.
Maybe there are local pictures from the beach with the jeep there ?

Keep us posted on your efforts !

Best Regards,
Ray