Early motor question

Feb, 1942 - GPW1 thru end of first contract, April, 1942 - GPW15000 NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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42fordmarty
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Early motor question

Post by 42fordmarty » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:14 pm

Ok so my Ford GPW has serial number 3134 and a DOD date of 3 42. It has a Willy’s frame with a ford serial number. Tom once told me that it was made in mid feb 42 in the Richmond plant. The motor serial number is MB215133 but it had a scripted ford head. I always thought it was a motorpool swap but when it was pulled apart for rebuild I noticed all the internal parts were F marked. Then I looked at the date stamp where the oil pan bolts up and it’s 2/9/42. Is it just ironic that they happend to swap the motor with another very early motor or did Willy’s send engine blocks with their frames to the ford factory’s?

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Re: Early motor question

Post by tractor12 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:43 pm

My early ford also has a block made by the company who made them for Willys but mine is stamped with the frame number. I believe yours was a swap from what others have told me. Also my block is a 10-41 dated
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Adam
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Adam » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:15 am

Do some research on old posts, consensus is Wilson sent castings to ford who assembled them and put their own parts and ser numbers on them. Most likely a fluke that they are close.

Any rebuild tags on the motor?
Any picture of the ser pad oval

Adam
Last edited by Adam on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Adam
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Adam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:48 am

Any evidence of an earlier serial number over stamped on the engine?

Is the serial number in the oval pad original font or something else?

Ford didnt stamp the oil pan with a machining date, yet serial number doesn't match that machining date.

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Re: Early motor question

Post by Fabrizio » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:22 am

Pretty interesting.
From what I remember,
Ford did have Wilson blocks after the VEP, some did make their way in production GPWs, most were supplied as replacement engines, well after the end of the first contract, and even well into 1943 if I remember correctly?

The odd thing is the « late » MB serial VS the early machining date.

Are we sure Ford assembled VEP Wilson blocks didn’t have the machining date stamped?
I think I have read that the stamping was made by Wilson and not by willys, and it wpuld sound logical that a supplier would deliver the castings machined, and not raw.

Ps: I have GPW3606, Dearborn, 2055994S, 3/3/43, I think you are now the closest serial I know on the board ;)
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari


Chuck Lutz
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:46 am

I believe the Wilson blocks Ford used were bare blocks and the internals were Ford not Willys.
I have had a couple Ford "replacement motors" and seen others with no serial number stamped on the raised boss but they did have a stamping on the LF corner near the exhaust manifold and the ones I have seen were cast/dated in 1945.
I believe that Ford only supplied those un-serial numbered motors using Ford blocks, not Wilson blocks.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Fabrizio
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Fabrizio » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:17 pm

Sadly Tom will not chime in to confirm, but I really think he wrote somewhere that a substantial quantity of Wilson blocks were supplied by Ford as replacement engines, I will try to dig it up
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

Fabrizio
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Fabrizio » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:19 pm

Here it is:
Tom Wolboldt wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:30 am
Wilson Foundry blocks were just bare blocks received at the Ford motor building to be assembled into Ford GPW motors for either use in a GPW ( serial number added ) or as a replacement motor ( no serial number added ).
And:
Tom Wolboldt wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:31 pm
Ford records show that about 8000 Wilson Foundry motors were used thru mid '43 for both production motors ( going into GPWs ) and as spare replacement stock.
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

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Re: Early motor question

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:57 am

Fabrizio….

I think you may have a correct assessment of Tom's quotes if you leave out the word "substantial" in your post. I see nothing in Tom's two quotes that states that Willys received more or less of those 8,000 Wilson block/Ford internals "replacement" motors than Ford ended up using.

However.....MB215133 would be a Feb 1943 DOD so I wonder if that machining date is really 2-9-42 because if it is really 2-9-43 then the serial number would match up with the DOD pretty well.

Marty....Can you post pics of the motor number and the date stamping on the pan gasket surface please?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Michael O.
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Michael O. » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:52 pm

GPW 3134 would have left the factory with either a Ford or Wilson produced engine with a serial number of GPW 3134.
WC4 8668603
MB 111414
GPW 2647
GPW 104111
GPW 108552 (coming soon)
MB 369488
MB 379204

MVPA #13861

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Michael O.
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Michael O. » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:56 pm

Fabrizio wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:22 am
Ps: I have GPW3606, Dearborn, 2055994S, 3/3/43, I think you are now the closest serial I know on the board ;)
Do you mean 3/3/42?

FYI...I have a spare complete Wilson Foundry block with a factory GPW serial number stamp (curved W and all). This engine was originally installed in a GPW at the factory. The block was cast on December 14, 1943? (I haven’t checked the machining date yet) and I believe GPW 174593 would have been delivered in mid January 1944. You can see that this is clearly a GPW factory serial numbered block.
Attachments
DB092BC0-B254-4336-8B59-BD8259B8E17B.jpeg
DB092BC0-B254-4336-8B59-BD8259B8E17B.jpeg (116.21 KiB) Viewed 150 times
1209D82B-6B7D-4961-A454-83B415E990C7.jpeg
1209D82B-6B7D-4961-A454-83B415E990C7.jpeg (185.25 KiB) Viewed 150 times
WC4 8668603
MB 111414
GPW 2647
GPW 104111
GPW 108552 (coming soon)
MB 369488
MB 379204

MVPA #13861

Fabrizio
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Re: Early motor question

Post by Fabrizio » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:04 am

Hi Michael, of course GPW 3606 is a 1942, sorry for the typo!

Your engine is very interesting, as it indeed suggests that wilson blocks have been used on completed GPWs, far into the production, and just before the end of the use of Wilson blocks as factory replacements.
GPW #238336
GPW #3606
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

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