Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Feb, 1942 - GPW1 thru end of first contract, April, 1942 - GPW15000 NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
Wolfman
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Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Wolfman » Wed May 23, 2018 2:00 pm

GPW 964 came home to roost for a few days before the Memorial Day parade.
While going over her, noticed a "few" drops of oil on the distributor cap.
It has the very early, small push on oil filler cap.
On the rear of the filler tube, there is a small hole, maybe 3/16. Just below the cap.
The source of the oil.
Not running out in a stream. Just blowing a few drops. At the distributor.
What is the purpose for the hole ??
It has a down draft tube. No PCV valve.
Wondering what would happen if I plug the hole ??
Mike Wolford
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Michael O.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Michael O. » Wed May 23, 2018 6:29 pm

Mike, I have a few of the early oil filler tubes but I don’t recall any having the small hole you have on yours. I believe this is a modification to increase the crankcase venting for some reason? Maybe some sort of old mechanic’s trick?
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Wolfman » Thu May 24, 2018 5:15 am

Thanks for the reply, Michael.
I couldn't come with any good reason for it being there either but thought it would be wise to get a second opinion.
Mike
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Adam » Thu May 24, 2018 9:12 pm

My dipstick tube has it as do these if you want it.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=241355



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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by fiveftsix » Thu May 24, 2018 10:38 pm

The small hole is normal
If I was you I`d check out your down draft tube for obstructions/
The wire mesh filter comes to mind here
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Fabrizio » Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 pm

Hi,
Do we have absolute proof that the early-early tube was used on GPWs?
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Adam » Fri May 25, 2018 5:27 am

Jeep draw says up into feb of 42, however there is a post or posts on here someplace asking why there are no F marked early sticks, Ive had quite a few of the early sticks and I have never seen a F. About 2 years ago I read all of them, I have GPW 260, Forget its DOD, will have to get hold of Tom W again, anyway for some reason I went with the push on funnel type. I did keep the one though just in case.

Wasn't there a notice sent out by willys to remove and discard the vent screen in the draft pipe and with the pvc systems since they clogged and nobody ever cleaned them? Wonder 'what happens when you pull the dipstick out with the engine running? Got a mist of blow by coming out of the tube? Is there a baffle on the dipstick? Does that little disc ever do any good?

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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Fabrizio » Fri May 25, 2018 7:07 am

The two early dipsticks have solid baffles, the late one has the same but with added holes, probably to let the vapours travel up to the pcv hose.

I had discussed about dipsticks with Tom a few months ago, his opinion was that the 2nd type, F marked on the dipstick, was correct for my GPW (3606 3-3)
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Michael O. » Fri May 25, 2018 9:42 pm

I’m apologize, I didn’t realize that the OP was referring to the MA/Slat MB oil filler tube...I should have read his post more attentively. With what we know now, GPW’s did not use this set up. Only three different styles were used during GPW profuction:

Early = Straight tube funnel type that occomodates the fruction-fit dipstick
Mid = Bayonet cap type with the crank vent tube (no indentation)
Late = Bayonet cap type with crank vent tube and indentation (for 55 amp generator)

The information from JeepDraw is going off previous data published in the 1999 edition of the GPWJS.

This topic is addressed in the upcoming new GPW Restoration Guide.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Wolfman » Sat May 26, 2018 6:47 am

The engine in GPW 964 is a Wilson Foundry block. Serial number on the pad is GPW 1369. Pretty close.
The dip stick tube is straight, push on type.
The dipstick has a round washer/baffle welded on it that is positioned about half way down the inside of the tube when the the dipstck is installed.
No wire mesh.
Originally, I said the hole was 3/16. On re-examination, more like 1/4 inch, at the rear and positioned just below the push on cap, when it is in place. Pretty big, I think.
As far as letting vapors escape, the push on cap is not a sealed fit. Beside, the engine has a down draft tube. No PVC valve. Any pressure in the crankcase can escape that direction.
Any way, I plugged the hole. Don't like drops of oil on the distributor cap.
See what happens. I did not do anything that cannot be un-done.
Thanks to all for the intel.
Mike Wolford
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Michael O. » Sat May 26, 2018 8:38 am

Mike, you should replace your tube and dipstick with the correct types and your issue will be solved! Just a suggestion sir.

Did you get the GPW engine #1369 from Ron? This number seems very familiar to me for some reason.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Wolfman » Sun May 27, 2018 6:17 am

The jeep was purchased from Retired Col. Al Grounds from Smyrna Tenn. in a basket, ten or twelve years ago.
He delivered it to my AO in a dually Dodge pick up truck pulling a tandem axle trailer full of pieces and parts in boxes.
According to the Col, he bought it from the grandson of a WWII Veteran that was a farmer in Alabama. This gentleman bought it from an Army Surplus Depot in Nashville Tn. with his Honorable Discharge Papers and $1.00. :D Buy of the century !!
The farmer used it on his farm until it broke down and was then left out behind the barn.
That is the condition it was in when I got it. Pretty rough !!
I spent the next five years restoring it to what I believe was the way it came off the assembly line. Only thing I did not change was the Torque Reaction Spring, which I am pretty sure was a Field Mod. Left it for safety reasons. Don't want anyone getting hurt !
The engine was complete and the oil filler tube in question was in place, with the hole in question.
The frame is MB stamped with the GPW serial number and the tub is script and I believe the original.
At the moment, GPW 964 is on it's way to the V.A. Veterans home, North of Lafayette, In. for the day.
I am sure they will enjoy the visit.
One more way to Thank Them for their service.
And Thanks to Mr. Lee Schweitzer. "LS" on the "G". He and Mr. Reason Biddle (RIP) are the ones that made this all possible. Along with some wrench turning by myself.
Mike Wolford
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Michael O.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Michael O. » Mon May 28, 2018 11:13 am

Wolfman wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:17 am
I spent the next five years restoring it to what I believe was the way it came off the assembly line.
I’m sure your GPW looks nice. I appreciate other guys like myself who strive for correctness.
Changing out your oil filler tube and dipstick with the correct style will bring it that much closer to 100%.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Wolfman » Tue May 29, 2018 6:36 am

Decisions, Decisions.
One of the problems from the beginning was trying to determine exactly what did come off the assembly line in Early Feb. 42. From personal experience, there are as many opinions as sources. I have read and listened to all of them.
GPW Production started in late 1941. Like Nov. or Dec.
Delivery dates, from what I have read, started 13 Feb. 1942. At serial # 500. There are a few earlier numbers out there. GPWs used for testing ???
The very first GPWs were made from parts Ford had in production. The parts they did not have ready, came from Willys and the first engines were Wilson Foundry. Possibly, originally intended for a Willys ???
From what I can determine, GPW 964 was delivered on Thursday, second week of Febuary. 1942. It was assembled earlier.
The frame is Willys MB. Serial # tag holes just small pilot holes. Never drilled to size. GPW 964 stamped on top of the left frame rail, in front of the engine mount bracket. Tags were still attached to the glove box lid, on the Ford Script tub, stamped GPW 964. Originals are in an envelope in the glove box. Installed new ones for cosmetic purposes.
My point to all this is, In the beginning, and this is, there was a scramble by Ford to get GPWs off the assembly line. By what ever means it took.
The numbers on the block and frame do not match, but are reasonably close. GPW 964 / GPW 1369. Is it as originally assembled ??????????
Tube is example "A" in the All American Wonder Vol. II. Page 227. Willys MA
At the moment, gonna leave it that way.
But, I am always open to opinions. I have been known to change my mind. 8)
The mystery hole is shown in the pic in AAW Vol. II. I plugged it but it is under consideration as well. See what happens. I might open it back up.
Mike Wolford
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VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 44 yrs)
EAA ( 44 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

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Michael O.
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Re: Small hole in oil filler tube ?

Post by Michael O. » Tue May 29, 2018 11:23 am

Mike, have you ever queried Tom Wolboldt? There has been much information brought to light since AAW Vol I. was first published 32 years ago. I commend you for striving for the most historically accurate restoration as possible. My GPW 2647 was delivered on 2-26-42 (so assembled in the third or fourth week in February 1942) from Dearborn and like my other jeeps, it will be restored to as close to factory condition as possible.

As far as the Wilson Foundry engines, I don’t think they would have came from Wilson as an assembled unit. Ford would have received a machined block (or were they machined by Ford?) and assembled it using Ford parts...manifolds, front plates, valve covers, rods, heads, etc.. This would include Ford installing the oil filler tubes. Based on the best available information we know now, there isn’t any evidence that Ford used the MA/Early MB oil filler tube (but I’ve been known to change my mind also especially when new evidence is presented or new documents are found and calls my previous assumptions into question).

Full disclosure....I am not an absolute expert. Tom Wolboldt can verify or dispute this information as he is one of the best suited for this. The topic of GPW oil filler tubes is addressed in the updated GPW Restoration Guide which will be in publication soon via the MVPA. Individuals should be able to preview pre-publication copies at the upcoming Convention in a few weeks. If you happen to have any Ford documents showing that the MA oil filler tube was used during early GPW production that you would be willing to share this would be an invaluable addition to the new guide!

Also, GPW 964 would have had a GPW serial numbered motor that matched your frame, IOW, GPW 964. You are lucky to have an early motor with a serial number very close to your GPW’s serial number, but not the one factory installed on your frame.
WC4 8668603
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GPW 2647
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GPW 108552 (coming soon)
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