Russian BRC's
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Re: Russian BRC's
Nice one Bill Bergs cars
BTW if Bantam hadn't really sold "Jeeps" to the Russians as the ad states then Willys would have really hammered them in the courts for false advertising, food for thought
BTW if Bantam hadn't really sold "Jeeps" to the Russians as the ad states then Willys would have really hammered them in the courts for false advertising, food for thought
Michael Browne
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
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Re: Russian BRC's
Hi Jim,
Could you post the information you have on how many BRC's were exported including the BRC 60 to what countries, how many and what LL contract details? Particularly those that came to England? And do you know if any MA's were used by the British Army?
Regards,
Robin
Could you post the information you have on how many BRC's were exported including the BRC 60 to what countries, how many and what LL contract details? Particularly those that came to England? And do you know if any MA's were used by the British Army?
Regards,
Robin
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Re: Russian BRC's
Michael...Willys would have dad no right to "sue" anyone for the term jeep until 1948 or so..."Jeep" was considered by the courts a general term of usage..like "pickup truck"...For a full discussion see Fred Coldwell's great book, the Selling of the All-American Wonder. Whatever the merits of the actual Willys product, the advertising campaign was brilliant..this one little pathetic black and white ad was all poor old Bantam could "afford" (as if Willys was rolling in dough).
One of the reasons I find the jeep story so compelling is that it marks almost the exact spot when the United states changed from being one type of place into another whole different type of place (a period which the internet and other factors may at last be ending).The jeep was the last real seat of the pants, floor designed by apprentice system engineers of the old school (the whole "need" for Probst to come in and create blueprints that QMC could read points this up dramatically) to the whole new system of defense procurement, lobbyists and mostly the world of "appearances" and creating brand loyalty by mass propaganda techniques (pefected in Europe by the various dictatorships).
One of the reasons I find the jeep story so compelling is that it marks almost the exact spot when the United states changed from being one type of place into another whole different type of place (a period which the internet and other factors may at last be ending).The jeep was the last real seat of the pants, floor designed by apprentice system engineers of the old school (the whole "need" for Probst to come in and create blueprints that QMC could read points this up dramatically) to the whole new system of defense procurement, lobbyists and mostly the world of "appearances" and creating brand loyalty by mass propaganda techniques (pefected in Europe by the various dictatorships).
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Re: Russian BRC's
Dr. Spear, I do NOT want to jump your thread, but my teeth almost fell out when I saw that last posted American Bantam ad.......I would love to find an original. wonder what it is out of? date?.....that ad looks like a SLAM DUNK to those worried if Bantam ever really sent BRCs to Russia. HELLO??????? about once a year I see a photo from you that astonishes me.... this is that photo for 2010.............
The one that dies with the most toys WINS
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Re: Russian BRC's
you realize this was supposed to post under September 23, 1940 thread.........
The one that dies with the most toys WINS
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Re: Russian BRC's
the photo and ad I am referring to is eight posts back... Ivan gets his First Jeep.....
The one that dies with the most toys WINS
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Re: Russian BRC's
Bill,
The Bantam ad is some really good stuff!
It does give credence to the theory that the Soviets did receive BRC 40's directly from Bantam.
The amount is interesting as well.
I will have to dig deeper at NARA..............
Robin,
As far as I can determine, no BRC 60's were exported by L/L.
Yes the British got at least one Willys MA which was used by the RN.
Jim
The Bantam ad is some really good stuff!
It does give credence to the theory that the Soviets did receive BRC 40's directly from Bantam.
The amount is interesting as well.
I will have to dig deeper at NARA..............
Robin,
As far as I can determine, no BRC 60's were exported by L/L.
Yes the British got at least one Willys MA which was used by the RN.
Jim
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Re: Russian BRC's
Thanks Jim that's very interesting. However do you know how many BRC 40's were supposedly sent to Britain?
Regards,
Robin
Regards,
Robin
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Re: Russian BRC's
Jim,
I have been thinking, what are the ods BRC's found their way to Russia through Iceland? If I am right, certainly in the early years all lend lease trucks to Russia came through Iceland..right?
We know BRC's were used @ Iceland...Hindrik from Iceland posted allot of photos on the Gee a while ago.
I have been thinking, what are the ods BRC's found their way to Russia through Iceland? If I am right, certainly in the early years all lend lease trucks to Russia came through Iceland..right?
We know BRC's were used @ Iceland...Hindrik from Iceland posted allot of photos on the Gee a while ago.
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Re: Russian BRC's
A very interesting thread indeed.
But be aware, regarding pictures, that both sides also used captured Jeeps. See the Bantam with German Army officers?
This picture is really interesting:
The Russian soldier greeting the GI at Torgau on the Elbe River in 1945 actually sits in a British Airborne Jeep, albeit with Russian markings on the Windscreen.
Thinking about it, this Jeep must have served in at least 3 if not 4 Armies between 1942 and 45. Some Jeeps were handed over by the US Army to the British, they converted some to Airborne, landed in Italy, Normandy or Holland or on the Rhine and fought in the Battle of the Bulge...but must have lost the Jeep to the Germans...who used them in the East and it got liberated again by the Soviets who used them on their advance. See the British tool clips on the cowl and the quick release device on the steering wheel? No handles?
A VERY TOUGH VETERAN JEEP INDEED.
But be aware, regarding pictures, that both sides also used captured Jeeps. See the Bantam with German Army officers?
This picture is really interesting:
The Russian soldier greeting the GI at Torgau on the Elbe River in 1945 actually sits in a British Airborne Jeep, albeit with Russian markings on the Windscreen.
Thinking about it, this Jeep must have served in at least 3 if not 4 Armies between 1942 and 45. Some Jeeps were handed over by the US Army to the British, they converted some to Airborne, landed in Italy, Normandy or Holland or on the Rhine and fought in the Battle of the Bulge...but must have lost the Jeep to the Germans...who used them in the East and it got liberated again by the Soviets who used them on their advance. See the British tool clips on the cowl and the quick release device on the steering wheel? No handles?
A VERY TOUGH VETERAN JEEP INDEED.
Lars-Uwe Rudek
GPW 213313 (HOBO) DoD 7-26-44
GPW 261254 (SUSIE BLUE) DoD 3-26-45 (est.)
MB 177547 (JONSEY) DoD 9-28-42
MB 290875 (HOBBES) DoD 12-21-43
GPW 213313 (HOBO) DoD 7-26-44
GPW 261254 (SUSIE BLUE) DoD 3-26-45 (est.)
MB 177547 (JONSEY) DoD 9-28-42
MB 290875 (HOBBES) DoD 12-21-43
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Re: Russian BRC's
Hi All,
Just searching old files and this thread jumped out at me
Looking at the bottom line the list of parts/equipment made by Bantam sure rings true to timeline and gives real credence to the 1000 BRC jeeps being shipped to Russia.
I wonder if Jim Gilmore managed to find any further information in the l/l files or in other shipping documents
Also wonder if the Bantam records will ever see the light of day again
Enjoy
Just searching old files and this thread jumped out at me
Looking at the bottom line the list of parts/equipment made by Bantam sure rings true to timeline and gives real credence to the 1000 BRC jeeps being shipped to Russia.
I wonder if Jim Gilmore managed to find any further information in the l/l files or in other shipping documents
Also wonder if the Bantam records will ever see the light of day again
Enjoy
Michael Browne
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
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Re: Russian BRC's
Nothing new here Michael, but, as we go into the 75th anniversary preparation, I think we really need to get some Russian experts involved and resolve some of this stuff..it is really going to the the last chance, at least in my likely lifetime to cast a worldwide net for Bantam information...It was interesting re reading this thread as you say...I have pretty much forgotten about all of it. Did Jime G ever find anything in the archives? In this regard, has anyone looked at the "gigs" section of Craigs list? I am going to try to fnd some starving grad student at the U of MD to take a camera up there and get some of this stuff at least in private hands..
S
S
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Re: Russian BRC's
One more thing...I forgot if someone already posted this or not...looks like at least one BRC got there....Also, from the copy it appear that at least someone them were 4 steers...
http://www.lend-lease.ru/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=35
http://www.lend-lease.ru
http://www.lend-lease.ru/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=35
http://www.lend-lease.ru
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Re: Russian BRC's
Is there any know photo of MA in Russian service?
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