WW II ERA STARS

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, modifications, sugestions, and ideas
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OPFOR DOC
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WW II ERA STARS

Post by OPFOR DOC » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:27 am

I recently purchased a 1946 CJ-2A and want to fix it up to look as military as possible. I can't decide which type of "star" to put on the hood. Can someone provide me with the history behind the plain star and the star with a complete circle versus the one with a broken circle. I know it was for recognition by aircraft but I'm not sure if each variation has a meaning or came into being at different time periods.

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Post by Docsjeep » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:16 am

I believe the star with the broken circle is D-Day and after in Europe.
If you post this question on the MB/GPW Tech section here on the G503, you would get a fast and more exact answer.

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star

Post by Rich Saylor » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:22 pm

WW2 stars were 15" diameter, and had either no circle, a whole circle or a broken one. Air force Jeeps often had no hood star at all. As it will be easy to tell a CJ2A from a WW2 Jeep anyway, put the one on you like best. Color schemes are another issue- the Brits used a "desert tan" paint - sorta pinkish- scheme for their North African patrol Jeeps, plus a whole lot of other mods as well. Our own Jeeps had different color OD schemes depending on time of manufacture, mostly. Early ones, a lighter, "lusterless" OD; later ones, a darker semi-gloss OD. You can call RAPCO or else AJP for paint, and other supplies, as well as our host on G503, Ron Fitzpatrick. If you intend to make it look like a WW2 model as much as possible you really should buy the All-American Wonder books, Vols. 1 & 2 at least for all sorts of details & info, including hood number info and so on. Don't forget that WW2 Jeeps had not only military tires- 16 x 600 NDCC, but so called "combat rims" as well, now very expensive. Also no WW2 Jeep was originally fitted with either electric or vacuum windscreen wipers, but hand-lever operated wipers. Crude. 6 volt electrics, no roll bars, no seat belts, no turn signals, no effective stop/tail lights... and so on. Just how "WW2" do you want to get?
Rich

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Re: star

Post by wylde » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:26 am

Rich Saylor wrote: Don't forget that WW2 Jeeps had not only military tires- 16 x 600 NDCC, but so called "combat rims" as well, now very expensive.
I am interested in knowing, did the Non-Combat Rims see combat service in WW2, if so what size.

I’m faking out a CJ2 for a GPW.

And I am doing all the body work, to relocate the Fuel filler under the seat, as well as deleting the Side fuel fill port. Adding the Mili Tool panels on the Driver side as well as removing the tail Gate, and welding in a solid butt.

I have replaced the Bug Eyed Grill for a GP. And will be replacing the Glare Shield and Frame Assy, for the GPW / MB model Assy.

Once the changes are made, how much harder will it be to mistake it for a GPW / MB?

Now to keep this post on topic, Any clue if there was UNIT specific style for stars on the hood and body?
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fake GPW

Post by Rich Saylor » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:23 am

You really should get a copy of AWW 1 & 2- that's the "All-American Wonder" books- available thru most of the military-type Jeep dealers- including our host, Ron Fitzgerald, in Oregon. (His prices are very fair!) They're excellent primers on the subject, with a terrific amount of info on WW2 Jeeps, and not expensive. The last in the series- volume 3- is a lot bigger book, and a lot more expensive, though.

"Once the changes are made, how much harder will it be to mistake it for a GPW / MB?"

To the very casual eye, the average Joe won't know the difference. So far as anyone with any knowledge of military Jeeps, tho- there's no way you can truly disguise the beast. Too many differences, some more subtle than others. My experiences are with the MB and M38's, but each model- and in some cases each year of production, especially during WW2 when a lot of ongoing production changes were incorporated- has its own hallmarks- including the differences between Willys MB's and the Ford GPWs.

So far as I know, GPW's sent into combat all had the "combat rims" and the correct milspec tires. The Ford guys go gaga over how many original "f" stamped bolts & parts are on a correctly restored GPW or GPA, for instance. To a true Ford Jeep nut, such a conversion might be close to heresy- but that's them, not me.

Really, you'd be better off making an ersatz MB, if anything... but why fool around? Why not just shop around for an inexpensive WW2 project car and do it right? At least you'd be able to get something out of it when you finally pass your project Jeep on to someone else, but if the (unfortunate) history of such conversions is any predictor, chances are neither the CJ guys or the GPW or MB guys would want to have anything to do with it.

In the end, though it's up to you, of course. The problem with asking for advice is...you're liable to get some, and you may not want to hear it.

"Now to keep this post on topic, Any clue if there was UNIT specific style for stars on the hood and body?"

Again, take a look at the AAW book. I suspect, though, that if you carry on your conversion to completion, the correctness of unit designation will be the least of the problem areas in successfully disguising the true nature of your Jeep.

Well, moving on, I suggest you also invest $20 in a copy of the military Jeep manuals on one CD for your mechanical knowledge, available from military-media.com online (hard copies are also available from Portrayal Press, at much greater expense, though they're easier to use of course. The CD has most of the manuals for ALL the main military Jeeps- GPW, MB, M38, M38A1, & M151's.

Here's a handy list of dealers:

M38 Dealers/parts suppliers
(updated 23 Dec. 2007. Please provide update/correction info to Rich Saylor- saylor@redshift.com)

AJP (Army Jeep Parts) "George Baxter"215-269-5014 (expensive but good stuff)
Beachwood Canvas, New Jersey 732 929 3168 (also expensive but also good stuff)
http://www.boltdepot.com/ (nuts & bolts)
Rick Larsen stencils NY 413 269 0058/59 (fax) make sure you know what you want. There were lots of variations.
Midwest Military- M38 parts- 952 440 8778 These guys make lots of high quality repo parts
Military-Media.com Good (but not perfect) $20 CD with all the major manuals of all Willys Jeeps- MB/GPW,
M38(MC), M38A1 (MD), M151- but ONLY for Windows- willl NOT operate on Mac! Also, M-M has inflexible
return or order cancellation (no!) policy if you forget & order this CD for your Mac. Still, a good deal for PC users.
Hal Miller email kb1zq5@swbell.net vacuum, fording and fuel lines
Brent Mullins- M38 parts- (Texas) 979 690 0203
MVP wiring- harnesses & stuff- "Jeff Smith" 850 475 5030
National Band & Tag (#1631 metal tags, to match original 14 ga. small wire wiring tags. Other sizes available.)
New Life Upholstery- canvas stuff, repair- http://www.newlifecanvas.com/index2.html “Mona”
Portrayal Press (www.portrayal.com) (973) 579-5781 has good paper reprints of original manuals, at a price. Better
than M-M’s CD, but more expensive. The M38 parts manual (biggest M38 manual, over 400 pages) is $59, others
are much less. Their website of military manuals is most impressive! P-P is in New Jersey.
RAPCO- M38 parts- "Mark Dodd" Texas 940 872 2403 Good source for paint, and other stuff too.
Ron Fitzpatrick 541.582.4035 OUR WEBSITE HOST! Has lotsa stuff, good prices!
Rod Shaver data plates: scoutcarrod@cox.net 480 893-2201 Does good work!
Saturn Surplus (Pennsylvania) 717 692 9520
Scholer Restoration (near Sarasota, Florida): 813 677 7680 (vacuum lines, mostly correct but not all)
Star Electric- electrical stuff- "kevin" 502 877 0813
Surplus City (California)-M38 stuff, canvas stuff/repair- 818 767 3666 “Chuck”
Then & Now fuel pump repair: http://www.then-now.com/services.html Highly recommended!
Thomas & Betts- wiring stuff (HQ in Tennessee) 800-816-7809, fax 800 816 7810,
elec_custserv@tnb.com in Belgium: +32.235.98200 europe_inquiry@tnb.com
Vintage Wiring of Maine-wiring harnesses, etc.- "Joe Hall" 207 465 3431
Weebee Webbing- canvas goods- "David Pizzoferrato" 888 632 5684
Willys Acres- M38 parts- "Marcus" 705 835 5739 Ontario Province, Canada
www.wiperman.com/ http:// (vacuum wiper motor repair)

Whatever you finally decide to do, best of luck!

Regards-
Rich


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Post by wylde » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:13 am

Thanks, rich.

I understand the reason for wanting to not convert to a WW2 Jeep.

On the other hand, I do Feel just as strong about the MB / GPW's that I would not want to take a WW2 Vet out into the woods, Reenacting and beet her up or more.

Some how that would break my heart.
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beating up a vet

Post by Rich Saylor » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:55 am

Well..the old Jeeps are a lot tougher than you seem to give them credit for- after all they were designed for combat, not just reenactments and trips thru the woods, a half-century on later!

Yes, some are trailer queens, but many are not. Whatever you decide to build, you should enjoy it- be its master, not so much the other way around... spare parts are not very expensive, and are readily available, especially for such an old vehicle! :wink:
Rich

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Post by Ben Dover » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:07 pm

The Army issued Star Stencils in various sizes in WWII starting around 43.
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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by thidisbogus » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:34 am

Did you ever get your project finished?

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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by Rich Saylor » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:48 am

Good question. If the CJ project isn't finished yet (it's only been 3~4 years or so) not to worry... some of my project vehicles take a LOT longer than that to wind up. I still haven't finished restoring a 1935 MG project I started in around 1998 (or so, who can remember, exactly...?) anyway if you haven't finished it yet maybe the hiatus will have given you some breathing room & allowed for renewed energy, and so on. On the other hand if you DID finish it, how'd it turn out? PS the reason for my not finishing the MG so far was because not long after starting it I took up restoring WW2 & Korean War era Jeeps... still have my M38, sold the rest. And, as soon as I finish my latest money pit project (a 1966 "XKE") it'll be back to the MG. Anyway that's my New Year's resolution story & I'm sticking to it!!!

Rich
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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by thidisbogus » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:11 pm

Those Jags are nice. I also have an MG, though not nearly as old as yours. A 74 chrome bumper B.

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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by Rich Saylor » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:17 pm

The earlier B's are nice, dependable sports cars. Not so inspiring as some others, maybe, but easy to drive & they never seem to quit! A guy from Paris bought a TR3A I'd restored some years ago, and as he was looking for a few other sports cars to have as rentals in an event he was starting up called the "Princess Rallye"- Paris to Monaco, for ladies only- I found him a pretty nice MGB hardtop with the cloth sunroof option. Made a very nice combination, for not much $$$ either! Of course none of this has anything at all to do with Jeeps but what the heck...
Rich

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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by thidisbogus » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:50 pm

Yes the chrome bumpers were/are nice. They ruined (because of USA government rules) the model when they raised the ride height over an inch and slapped those hundreds of pounds rubber bumpers on them. It wrecked the handling characteristics. They then (because of EPA rules) choked the engine down with smog equipment costing like 40hp.

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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by Jim Sanders » Mon May 14, 2012 1:15 pm

An "old wives' tale" is that the circles were added to avoid confusing US vehicles with USSR vehicles marked with a star.
1960 M422 w/M416B1 trailer
1946 CJ-2A
2006 Rubicon
1969 Jeepster Commando

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Re: WW II ERA STARS

Post by gearhead » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:57 am

WW2 jeeps did have vacuum wipers near the end of production.
They were mounted above windshield vs. below on civy Jeeps.

I had thought about "converting " a civy Jeep to mimic a ww2 jeep also. Will end up just as being just as much $$$ as a ww2 project.
Bought several ww2 jeeps instead, as a conversion will not ever be a ww2 jeep and will not be a post war civilian Jeep either.
Plenty of good ww2 jeep projects out there, and you preserve history too!


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