GPW Radio Jeep

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kdmann143
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GPW Radio Jeep

Post by kdmann143 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:02 am

Is this the only picture of Gpw radio jeep we have?
Few visible differences between Mz and gpw radio jeep I can see
Are
1. No rings and horns
2. Standard manual wipers
3. Radio boxes are different.
4. Rear seat not raised ( means on Box underneath)
Also the seat seems to be full size.

I will be restoring my Gpw same as this one in picture,
Please advice if you have any other details about this jeep in picture.
Colour ?
Radios units ?

Thank you
Kam
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1943 GPW Radio Jeep USMC 48649
1942 CDLV 505 ( Barn find )
1982 wife

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Farrell Fox
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Farrell Fox » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:48 am

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kdmann143
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by kdmann143 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:59 am

Hi Farell
I hope your recovery is going well.
I have read that post before already but what I am
Asking is just about this particular GPW in the
Picture, what difference one can see and other details.
Thank you
Kam
1943 GPW Radio Jeep USMC 48649
1942 CDLV 505 ( Barn find )
1982 wife

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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Farrell Fox » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:27 pm

The differences I spot are in the main cabinets and if the antenna box has not been touched up, the tuning knob box is different. I assume since the battery boxes were versatile and came in other kits, one could assume they are exactly the same as found in the MB MZ jeeps, and would be the early square type. The main cabinets appear to have only 6 airloc fasteners per unit compared to the 12 per unit on the MB MZ model (excl. MZ-2). They also lack the door stowage hat channels. These appear to be more simplistic and would be easier to make than the MB MZ cabinets are.

Since this is a 1942 GPW, like the MB NOM-12 counterpart, it would not have had a rear seat box and a standard rear seat installed. The dynamotor would be installed in the passenger side radio cabinet.
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Mark Tombleson
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Mark Tombleson » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:40 pm

You cannot fit a standard seat between the boxes.

Just remember it is very hard to restore/portray a type of jeep with a photograph alone. No model number, part numbers, the equipment we see does not match the equipment we have documents on.

I have been searching for more than 8 years now... nothing documented yet.

If there were 481 of these you would think one would show itself as there were only 112 MZ-1 made, better than 4 times the jeeps.
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Farrell Fox » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Mark Tombleson wrote:You cannot fit a standard seat between the boxes.
Correct, I meant to say standard seat bottom.

Where does it say 481 of these were delivered?
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Mark Tombleson
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Mark Tombleson » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:58 pm

You posted the link!
Mark Tombleson wrote:
Lloyd White seems to remember 50, while Bryce Sunderlin seems to think 481. I don't know the answer... I may never know exactly how many were made, but it is important to the hobby this modification comes to light I think. :)

Oh, any feedback on the guy in Ohio?
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Farrell Fox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:42 am

Right, my point is these numbers seem to be speculation rather than based on anything solid, i.e. purchase order, budgets or delivery numbers. Unless there is documentation that suggests otherwise?

It would seem logical that there were none made, given that the USMC had Willys as a primary source for these units, and that the one in the photo is a single pilot model. It also would not be unheard of to see a contract of any number of units canceled before any number of them were ever made.
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by kdmann143 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:55 am

It seems like Ford only used pto+generator from Willys MZ setup
And made there own antenna box,battery box and cabinets.
Not sure if Ford would have actually used the MZ dash data plate .
Paint color could have been either OD or forest green?
It definately doesn't seems to a field installed kit as it is not same as
MZ.
Any document or proof of how many were made is still unknown, but this
Picture is the proof that atleast one was made forsure and that's good enough
For me .
Does any one has the picture of rear seat frame from a nom Mz the one without
The bottom storage box?
Thank you
Kam
1943 GPW Radio Jeep USMC 48649
1942 CDLV 505 ( Barn find )
1982 wife

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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by Farrell Fox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:07 am

I believe this is Jeff Q.'s jeep now.

Image
Image
Image
Image
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kdmann143
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep (USMC 48649)

Post by kdmann143 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:41 pm

Hello Gentlemen check the link below.
Apparently the member posted in radio Fourm back in 2010.
His 44 gpw had pto generator setup. What can be seen in picture is that
It had OD paint where generator sits and was painted Gray later on.
I have been trying to contact the member for a while but no success.
Does anyone has more info?

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=172644

Thank you
Kam
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1943 GPW Radio Jeep USMC 48649
1942 CDLV 505 ( Barn find )
1982 wife

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kdmann143
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep

Post by kdmann143 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Got lots of detailed pictures of this gpw radio jeep from the owner.
Just sharing one for now.
As you can see the floor below the generator is OD and the else has
Been repainted navy grey. Seems like generator setup might have been
at factory as the wire cover colour is same as rest of OD.
But there is a trace of Forest green aswell you can see.
Can't figure out how it's there. That is right under the terminal cover .

Image
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1943 GPW Radio Jeep USMC 48649
1942 CDLV 505 ( Barn find )
1982 wife

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Re: GPW Radio Jeep

Post by Farrell Fox » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:17 pm

Hi Kam,

Thank you for sharing this photo. It has great detail of the battery cable hat channel. I'd love to see more photos of this Jeep!
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep

Post by Farrell Fox » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:24 pm

Looking at this photo of this GPW, I can see that it has the mounting holes for the foot rests. I suspect that this GPW had a radio Jeep kit installed as opposed to being modified or purpose built at the factory. This would be my first guess as to the reason it has radio Jeep parts installed.
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Fred Coldwell
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Re: GPW Radio Jeep

Post by Fred Coldwell » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:02 pm

Hi All:

I am going to gather and comment on the scattered information posted about, and perhaps related to (or not), the Ford GPW radio jeep pictured below. To begin, the photo originated from a 30 year old hardcover book, "The Jeep" by co-authors Jean-Gabriel Jeudy and Marc Tararine, published in 1986 by Haynes Publishing Group, ISBN 0 85429 584 4. It appears on page 43 in that book above this caption "Ford GPW used by Marine Corps with their special radio equipment." On page 272 the co-authors credit the photo to Willys, not Ford.

Image

Observations about this GPW are that it lacks a blackout driving light, has two hand-operated windshield wipers and rubber hood blocks. It lacks the two front tow hooks and rings installed on the Marine Corps jeeps built by Willys-Overland. Farrell noted the two radio chest on the rear fenders, though similar in appearance, are more simple than the radio chest supplied by Willys-Overland. The radio chests on this GPW "appear to have only 6 airloc fasteners per unit compared to the 12 per unit on the MB MZ model (excl. MZ-2). They also lack the door stowage hat channels." The radio antenna base box on the side of the jeep is slightly different from the early Willys version too.

Others have identified the GPW as having been manufactured in 1942. More specifically, in a post dated Thu Aug 16, 2007 [at] 2:44 pm, Tom Wolboltdt states this "is a 42 GPW made after April 10th, 42 and before Nov. 10th, 42" without giving any reasons for that conclusion. Presumably, those bookend dates were established by the features this GPW has and lacks.

I will add one more observation about this GPW. The stencils used to paint "USMC 48649" on the hood side and front bumper are different than the stencils used by Willys-Overland to mark its USMC MB jeeps. Look closely at this close-up photo of the GPW's hood number:

Image

Note the vertical or angled stencil lines through the "U", "C", "4", "8", "6" and "9". Note the horizontal stencil lines through the "S", "6" and "9". These are not the solid letters and numbers seen on Willys Marine Corps jeeps. To me, this is convincing evidence that someone other than Willys applied the USMC registration number to this GPW. It could have been Ford or the Marine Corps itself.

A few of you have questioned the origin of the 481 number for Ford radio jeeps. As noted earlier, that came from Bryce Sunderlin's memory of what he read during a trip he made to the Ford Archives over 30 years ago, so it was a soft number. Well, upon suggestion, Bryce revisited the Benson Ford Archives this past week to track down where he saw that number. He found the source document in a Charles LaCroix file box, a near final draft of LaCroix's final report written on yellow lined paper in faded blue ink. The note stated something to the effect that "total GPW production was for the War Department, except for 662 GPWs for the Navy, including . . ." [here a corner of the page was torn off, leaving that sentence incomplete]. So the correct number of Navy GPW's was 662, not the mis-remembered and incorrect 481. And only a subset of the 662 Navy jeeps might have been radio jeeps. So please discard the 481 number as an incorrect remembrance from 3 decades ago.

Charles LaCroix's number of 662 Ford GPW jeeps delivered to the Navy is corroborated by an independent source posted a few times by Mark Tombleson, Sheet 1 of 50 from the Ordnance Department's "Administrative and Tactical Vehicles, 1940-1945" dated 1 October 1945. It is included again here for your convenience.

Image

The sum of the two 1942 GPW entries not having U.S.A. Registration numbers, 653 GPWs for the "NAVY DEPARTMENT" and another 9 GPWs unassigned [for "BLANK"], is 662 GPWs. So of the 662 GPWs for the Navy Department per LaCroix, 653 went to the Navy Department and the other 9 were assigned to an unknown party. But those other 9 GPWs have been discussed earlier on G503.com. In a response to Mark T's question whether these 9 GPWs [the number actually under discussion in 2003 was inexact, but around 8 or 9] might have been Ford radio jeeps, Jim Gilmore on Sun Jul 13, 2003 [at] 10:07 pm posted:

"The [8 or 9] GPW's were delivered from the Fort Wayne (Detroit) Army Depot back to Ford. They were converted to 12 volt and delivered to the White House in Washington DC. Color was the standard OD. Jim Gilmore."

What I believe Jim is stating is that the 9 GPWs shown on Sheet 1 of 50 that were not directly assigned to the Navy Department were, instead, delivered from the Fort Wayne Army Depot to Ford in Detroit, where they were converted to 12 volts by Ford and delivered to the Marine Corps stationed at the White House in Washington, D.C. for use as radio jeeps.

It would only make sense that those 9 GPW's delivered to the Marine Corps would have worn USMC registration numbers. Per Sheet 1 of 50, these 662 Navy Department Ford jeeps were 1942 GPW's built under QMC contract number 11424 (which later became ORD contract 374 ORD 2742), so the 9 radio jeeps could have matched the 1942 GPW radio jeep in the picture.

The Ford radio jeep pictured above has been identified as a 1942 GPW. It obviously has registration number "USMC 48649" that was not applied by Willys-Overland. And per Mr. Gilmore, it might still have its original lusterless Olive Drab paint (which one cannot determine from the photo). Based on all the above circumstantial evidence, I think it very well might be one of the 9 GPW radio jeeps that were converted to 12 volts by Ford and delivered to the Marines Corps stationed at the White House for use as a radio jeep to guard and protect the White House during WW II.

I don't know the timing or dates for the above events. But I'll speculate a possible reason that photo was found by Jeudy and Tararine in Willys-Overland's files is that the Marine Corps might have given it to Willys when it asked Willys "We need more radio jeeps like this; can you build them for us?"

I wonder if Ford used GPA 12 volt electrical system parts to convert these 9 radio jeeps to 12 volts? Or something else?

I claim no expertise in, or familiarity with, Ford GPW jeeps, so I solicit comments both pro and con to my above idea. Whatcha think guys? Fire away!
Happy Jeep Trails,

Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
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