Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

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Big D
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Hi Doug and Sly22,

Wow! Thanks for the tips and great pictures. There is some great advice there.

I can recall reading about other people's woes with the brake lines and that makes total sense. I think I even have a spare garden weed sprayer!

I was only just looking at the throttle master cylinder the other day to. Mine is frozen solid so I'll make sure I install that double-lip seal when I have it freed up.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car


Big D
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:45 pm

Some more photos of the jigsaw puzzle. Excuse the odd GMC part in the pictures.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

nirvana
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by nirvana » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:26 pm

I'll leave it to your expert welders to do their job, but I would be truly surprised if they don't use stainless welding rod. The restorations I've seen personally have always used stainless, as the other stuff sucks up hardness from the plate and then splits. Nice looking project though, a lot more than the Panther guys end up with these days.

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by dgrev » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:59 pm

nirvana wrote:I'll leave it to your expert welders to do their job, but I would be truly surprised if they don't use stainless welding rod. The restorations I've seen personally have always used stainless, as the other stuff sucks up hardness from the plate and then splits. Nice looking project though, a lot more than the Panther guys end up with these days.
It all depends on what filler rod you are using.

Now to the armour welding issue. Back in 1941 when the Yanks switched over from riveted to welded armour they had all the issues with
metallurgy. The Poms didn't make the change for another couple of years.
The solution was to use stainless because metallurgically it was the closest practical match at that time.
But that was 74 years ago!
Times change as does the technology.

As a rule of thumb, US homogenous armour of that era is effectively crankshaft steel, nothing more
complicated than that.

Darryl's issue will be, if they use stainless, to keep paint on it, especially if it is a wide infill. Then there is
the practicalities of grinding it down smooth. Stainless is not fun to work.

I am not saying he shouldn't use stainless, just that it is worth investigating modern alternatives.

The jeep crowd go through debates like this too, as the jeep has multiple technological hangups
due to 1940s technology that are easily solved with 21st century fit and forget solutions. eg.
Lets say someone restores a jeep and they put the correct cork gasket back in for the gearbox input shaft.
Yes it is correct, no it is not a good idea.
That seal was one of the known failings of the design and not very smart even back at the beginning of WW2
but it did the job and was the easiest and cheapest solution.
Lots of people have ended up with oil soaked clutch plates since......

Regards
Doug

Big D
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:04 am

Hi Nirvana and Doug,

Thanks for the replies. I've had some advice from outside the forum from two persons with wide experience in working with armour. Interestingly, both recommend MIG for this.

One of those who provided advice has experience in welding together similar M8 hull pieces. In short his approach to welding the ones he did was:

* use MIG with 1.2 wire
* fit the turret ring gear on top which will align the top join
* position/adjust the bottom join using jacks etc
* ensure side plates are flat
* weld 5 to 10 cm welds all around the outside
* after welding outside, then weld inside
* grind the welds

I spoke to the engineering guys today and their thinking is along the same lines at this stage, but they will confirm.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

Fabrizio
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Fabrizio » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:43 am

Maybe you have already seen it, but there's an episode of "Tank overhaul" that shows a lot of the process of welding armor (making a Sherman hull from two damaged).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_SXH7AQe0
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari

dgrev
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by dgrev » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:59 am

Fabrizio wrote:Maybe you have already seen it, but there's an episode of "Tank overhaul" that shows a lot of the process of welding armor (making a Sherman hull from two damaged).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_SXH7AQe0
He says they are using mild steel MIG wire.

Surely that is not right?

Regards
Doug

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 pm

Hi all,

I have been reading the thread below (M20 Serial Number 2806-C, what's it tell us?) with interest especially around the comment from Joe, Claude and Jim and others of the location of the various numbers:

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=93779&start=90

I did some more looking for the numbers on this M8 hull. The Ordnance serial number on this hull below the glacis on the driver’s side is 7373. I can’t see any signs of any other letters or other numerals after that number. The same number of 7373 although quite faded, is stamped below the glacis on the co- driver’s side.

I checked right up through the centre of the hull at the front to see if there was a number above the glacis as described in the thread above, but couldn’t see anything.

I cleaned up the area inside the hull where the data plate would be and found these numbers:
GAK
C1(or maybe a 4?)19404
8920E-1

At the rear of the inside of the hull where the radiator would be, on the driver’s side is this number: 8035F5

Based on the information from inside the hull, can any of the many M8 experts on here advise on the likely manufacture date and factory of this hull?

I used the ‘Key’ number of "6032903" to come up with the USA Registration Number of 6040276-S for this vehicle. Do I have that right?

Many thanks.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

dgrev
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by dgrev » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:59 pm

Darryl

Getting into Greyhound plate and drawing numbers is a quick path to insanity.

Just be content with your hull number and extrapolate your USA number, no more!

Regards
Doug

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:00 pm

Hi Doug

I am quickly finding that out!
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

Big D
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:47 pm

Hi all,

I persevered with my search for numbers on this hull (yes Doug; going insane in a hurry!) and did finda number in the centre of the front of the hull, just below the hatches.

This number is 8987E11. Interestingly, this number appears to have been stamped upside down?

So, from what I understand from Jim's post here, this is likely to be the Manufacturer's Serial Number? viewtopic.php?f=82&t=93779&start=75

Has anyone else seen this manufacturer's serial number put in upside down like this?

Thanks.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

sly22
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by sly22 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:42 am

hi darryl ,

I think this is the part of the serial number. here the armor plate .
I just go see it on mine there's the hidden numbers in the paint. at the location.

This may be dependent on how the plate was placed at the time of assembly.

sly

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by dgrev » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:27 am

Big D wrote:
Has anyone else seen this manufacturer's serial number put in upside down like this?

Thanks.
No, because it is a drawing number for the plate, hence why they could not care
less if it was upside down or not.

Doug

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by Big D » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:01 pm

Thanks Doug and Sly. Perhaps someone else can add to this later on.

I haven’t been idle over the last week or so. In between waiting on news on the hull and getting my scout car parts sandblasted and painted, I did some work on the instrument panel of the M8.

I think with the likely manufacture date of this M8, it should have the early instrument panel which is what I have.

I had two pretty rough instrument panels and their switches and gauges to work with along with some new gauges that came with the package.

I am not set on the paint shade that I have used for the panel colour but it will do until I narrow that down later on. I worked off some NOS parts that I had which I gave to the paint supplier but I am not totally convinced after seeing it on the instrument panel.

A question on the circuit breakers. I know nothing about these. Are they lit when operating at all? What is the original colour? These ones had several coats of paint on them which I have cleaned up so am wondering whether I can touch them up with some original coloured paint to freshen them up.

I still need an ammeter and a headlight switch. Neither was recoverable from the instrument panels I had. Is the headlight switch the same as the jeep one? It looks very similar.

I’ll also need to find some sort of cover for the instrument lights.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

sly22
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car serial number 7373

Post by sly22 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:20 am

hello big D

on this site you have a beautiful picture of a dashboard of M8 or M20. it is different from the stars. you do not have fire detection like him.
http://www.tm9ordnance.com/m-20-restoration.htm


the buttons are different jeeps, they have less position.

sly


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