M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Armor, Military Vehicles, Wanted, For Sale (NO AUCTION or EBAY), and Knowledge Base
Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Wed May 16, 2018 5:42 am

Hi. Wondering if anyone knows of a source for front axle steering knuckle or king pin bearings. Parts book lists/describes it as "Cone and Roller, assembly", ordinance #A167916, Group # 1006, stock #G067-03-00280, manufacturers # WI-92666. The drivers side wheel of my scout car has play at the top/bottom, in the in/out direction. Without having taken it apart, I'm guessing it's the top & bottom bearings and figured it would be a good idea to have these on hand once I start digging into this. Thanks.

Cheers, Terry.

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed May 16, 2018 6:07 am

here's a thread addressing that issue. somewhere in the armor section there is a thread with a few images of a pencil drafted cross over parts chart. cant find it now, and not sure if KP bearings are in there. Will look today.
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=286130&hilit=scout+parts
Last edited by 17thAirborne on Sun May 20, 2018 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed May 16, 2018 2:19 pm

These have come from another thread: Please check and verify.

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=291788

Timken 41125
Timken 41286
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566

Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Wed May 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Thanks for the info...greatly appreciated. This will be a big help.
Cheers, Terry.

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed May 16, 2018 7:59 pm

Terry Witiuk wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:46 pm
Thanks for the info...greatly appreciated. This will be a big help.
Cheers, Terry.
Good luck. ill be doing this too in a few months, so please report your findings.

oz
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566


Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Tue May 29, 2018 8:57 pm

Have opened up the top steering knuckle, drivers side and pulled out the bearing. There was some minor wear in the bearing. Will open up the bottom steering knuckle cap tomorrow. The scout car maintenance manual makes reference to shims for making adjustments to the bearings but I did not find any. Does anyone have pictures of these shims or can someone better explain these?

From the maintenance manual TM9-705....
"50. MAINTENANCE AND ADJUSTMENTS.
a. Steering Knuckle Bearing Adjustment.
Jacks, two Wrench, socket, 3/4-in., and ratchet extension.
(1)Jack up the axle and remove the drag link and the lower steering knuckle flange bearing cap.
(2)Remove the four nuts which retain the upper bearing cap. Remove the hydraulic brake hose from the brake cylinder. This will allow the upper bearing cap and steering knuckle arm to be removed.
(3)Adjust the bearings by means of shims located under these caps. Shim packs must be the same thickness. Add shims to loosen bearings and remove shims to tighten bearings.
(4)Install the caps.
(5)The bearings should be adjusted until there is no end play of the knuckle assembly, but it should oscillate freely.
(6)Then remove the caps again and reduce the shim pile 0.005 inch under each cap.
(7)After replacing the caps, there should be a small amount of drag in rotating the steering knuckle but it should not bind. Replace brake hose and drag link and bleed brake cylinder."


Thanks, Terry.

RCASSIN
G-Command Sergeant Major
G-Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:38 pm
Location: west point, ny
Contact:

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by RCASSIN » Wed May 30, 2018 9:02 am

I know in the old motorcycle world, a shim is just a washer.
http://www.USAdogtags.com
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
42 Diamond T Halftrack
42 Scout car

G102
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1988
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:37 am
Location: CHICAGO BURBS
Contact:

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by G102 » Wed May 30, 2018 11:53 am

I had 2 different cans of different shim stock, you can cut your own shim. JR parts co has them. 15.00 per can
E mail JRPARTSCOMPANY@GMAIL.COM

Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Wed May 30, 2018 7:54 pm

Removed the bottom knuckle bearing and although all there and intact, it was badly pitted, corroded and plugged up with old grease and corruption! There was one shim in the bottom and although I have not measured the thickness as yet, it will serve as a template to cut/make my own shims. Looks as though the wheel bearings will need changing as well.
Cheers, Terry.
Attachments
Bottom Knuckle Bearing.2.2.jpg
Bottom Knuckle Bearing.2.2.jpg (138.58 KiB) Viewed 221 times

Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Thu May 31, 2018 4:39 am

Here's a picture of the shim which happens to be 0.005" thick.
Attachments
Knuckle Bearing Shim.jpg
Knuckle Bearing Shim.jpg (117.43 KiB) Viewed 210 times

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu May 31, 2018 5:57 am

Thanks for posting.
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu May 31, 2018 7:55 am

Did not know if you had access to the Base Shop manual, but here are 3 pages relating to the work you are doing. I hope this helps. I am watching your progress because I'll be doing this eventually and anything we all learn together is a help to everyone.
37 of 51.jpg
37 of 51.jpg (149.5 KiB) Viewed 201 times
38 of 51.jpg
38 of 51.jpg (187.81 KiB) Viewed 201 times
39 of 51.jpg
39 of 51.jpg (211.96 KiB) Viewed 201 times
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566

Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:34 am

Thanks for posting these pages from the Base Shop manual and no, I do not have this publication...these pages will help.

My scout car is a Greek return and did not undergo a full frame off/nut & bolt restoration when it was put back onto the road perhaps some 15 to 20 years ago (maybe more) but it has had a fair bit of work done to it. With the steering knuckle flange assembly being buttoned up the way it is, my hope was that I would be taking off the tire/rim, remove the brake drum and brake components and then open up the steering knuckle caps to pop out and replace the bearings. This was my hope and not a naive expectation as past experience has proven that nothing is ever that simple when working on old equipment.

Removing the brake drum/hub revealed the fact the two wheel bearings would need replacing. Although neither bearing was a complete write-off, both had some pitting/wear, had obviously been worked on previously and put back in the way they are...they should have been replaced the last time they were worked on. New bearings ordered, Timken numbers still good, should have these later today. When I removed the top knuckle bearing cap and removed the bearing and cone, I could see that there was a large amount of grease packed down into the flange assembly. The grease appeared to be fairly clean and did not suggest that I would have to clean it all out. The bearing has some pitting/wear and definitely needs to be replaced. There was no shim between the cap and flange assembly. Timken bearing numbers are good and I've already picked these up from a local bearing supplier. When I removed the bottom knuckle bearing cap, there was one 0.005" shim. Unlike the top bearing this was a different story as the bearing cup came out easily but the bearing itself did not. With the top cap and bearing removed, the whole flange assembly moved up and down and created enough space so that I was able to insert/place the tip of a small chisel between the inner race of the bearing and bell housing onto which the king pins/trunions are welded and with the tap of a hammer, the bearing broke free of the trunion and came down far enough that complete removal was now easy. It would have been alot easier if I had first removed the outer part of the flange assembly. The bearing was packed/caked with old grease that looked more like a rust coloured mud and would barely spin. I cleaned off this old grease to inspect the bearing...it was totally pitted and rusted. I could now see that the grease at the bottom of the flange assembly was severely contaminated and a major cleaning was necessary. I pulled the shaft assembly out and have now begun cleaning everything. Based on what I have found so far, it appears as though the flange assembly has never been opened up. More to come.

Cheers, Terry.
Attachments
Knuckle flange disassembled.jpg
Knuckle flange disassembled.jpg (179.91 KiB) Viewed 180 times

User avatar
17thAirborne
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3656
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:42 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by 17thAirborne » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:47 am

Excellent report and great image. I'll be watching this intently as you progress. I thank you in advance. I plan on pulling everything up to the ring gear which I'll decide after I open that up. Getting the backlash and tooth contact pattern adjustments right on my WC was very time consuming since I took everything out first :shock:
Oz

42WLA56511
M3A1 Scout Car 256272
GPW 5765
Converto Dump Trailer 0885566

Terry Witiuk
G-Corporal
G-Corporal
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: M3A1 Scout Car, Front Axle Steering Knuckle/King Pin Bearing

Post by Terry Witiuk » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:04 am

Wheel bearings and shim stock were not delivered on Friday, hopefully tomorrow. Carried on with cleaning of parts. The two halves of the knuckle flange had a fair bit of caked on dirt that had been painted over many times...now cleaned off. Disassembled the universal joint and cleaned out all the old grease. All components in good condition and now repacked with fresh grease and reassembled. Will do a preliminary fit of the knuckle bearings later today to see if there are any issues with this.

When I first acquired the Scout Car, the front left side shock absorber link/connecting rod was missing and a "Rancho Steering Stabilizer" had been installed to dampen or almost eliminate the wheel shimmy. The "Rancho Stering Stablizer" is essentially a large shock absorber that is bolted on one end to the axle shaft housing and the other end to the steering cross tube/connecting rod. This did a great job of almost eliminating/dampening the shimmy. Without the stabilizer, I experienced shimmying at about 35-40 mph. With the stabilizer installed, there was essentially no shimmy unless I hit a pot hole or major bump in the road at higher speeds. Although I could not actually watch or see the front tire as I was driving, the shimmy was severe as it would cause the whole front end to shake and I would have to slow down quickly to make it stop. I installed the missing shock absorber link/connecting rod a few weeks back and I believe that may have eliminated all shimmy with the steering stabilizer still installed. The stabilzer was a good temporary fix that masked the real issue.

When I first removed the top knuckle bearing cap, I noticed the four bolts had some wear and my only thought was these would have to be replaced. In fact, one of the bolts was a threaded stud with a nut on it. The top threaded bolt holes on the inner half of knuckle flange also showed signs of wear. Now thinking about this a little more, I suspect the wear is a result of the shimmy that I and the previous owners had experienced. I believe that when the shimmy was happening, it was severe enough to make the top knuckle bearing cap move around as it is anchored at the other end to the steering cross tube and hence the inside edge of the knuckle bearing cap bolt holes vibrated against the bolts and caused the wear/damage.

Hope this makes sense and is understandable...more to come.

Cheers, Terry
Attachments
Universal Joint Disassembled.1.jpg
Universal Joint Disassembled.1.jpg (189.84 KiB) Viewed 149 times
Knuckle bearing top cap bolts.1.jpg
Knuckle bearing top cap bolts.1.jpg (119.13 KiB) Viewed 149 times
Last edited by Terry Witiuk on Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Return to “Armor”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests