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Pinz vs Unimog
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:38 am
Ok guys, here`s a hot topic to be sure. Pinz or Unimog?
Well, I am certainly not a newbie when it comes to military vehicles, both restoration and repairs. My stable has included mainly WW2 vehicles with a few M series thrown in. I am certainly not afraid to tackle almost anything green.
I have an interest lately in the Pinzgauer especially, but being a newer, european truck I would just like to know what I may be getting into here...
Unlike the common MB, Dodge etc, I relize there are no comparisons when it comes to offroad and reliability.
I would like to know some common things to look out for when buying a Pinz and would like some input on the downside of this vehicle, especially from a mechanical end. What about parts availabilty and prices, as I`m sure the stuff ain`t cheap!
Now, how does the Pinz stack up against the Unimog 404?
I`m sure we`re talking about comparing apples to oranges here.
I do like the concept that the Pinz is a lightweight small vehicle, easy to manage and store but the Unimog is pretty cool too.
thoughs and advice please and thanks!
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:23 am
I was in the same quandry a while ago. Parts for the pinz will run a little higher than the 'mog. I was told this was because the pinz is still in service where as the 404 unimogs have been surplused out. The unimog uses the M180 6 cyl engine which parts are available for commercially. The Pinz's power plant/ drive train is unique to the pinz. In terms of reliability though, I'd rate both trucks about the same.The unimog is the better off road performer of the pair but drives like a farm tracktor on the road with a heavy non powered steering. The pinz is easier to get into and out of but is more of a personel carrier where the 404 is a better "cargo carrier" this only matters if you plan to actually "use" your vehicle. have you checked out www.rockymountainmoggers.com
or the www.sdppinzgauer.com
? These are good sites for information on these trucks.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:27 pm
Well, you do have a handle on it. It is comparing apples and oranges.
What do you want to do with the vehicle? Pinzes will out run a 404 every day on the road,
Check this site out, go to the specs for each of the Pinz and Mog, Scott lists the advantages and disadvantages of both. Then come back and ask more questions.
5 years ago, I chose the Pinz for size and speed, and never regretted it. But , I am finally getting a Mog, a 1300L.( even bigger than the 404). I personally don't care for the "sport car" seating in the older Mogs
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:48 pm
I'm begining to think that you,me & Major are the only ones posting on this page
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:47 pm
Well, we've got Ken also
.... I gotta go post over with Tiziano on the Haflingers.... I love those little buggers! I have a Swiss one, plus a pair of NAS Hafs in need of retoration ( but may sell them, may be getting a UK Haf in fair condition
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:39 pm
I think a more apt comparison to the Pinz is the Volvo C303 (TGB 11).
And for cost of parts, ease of obtaining parts as well as speed, driving comfort and muscle I've found the 303 to be a better choice.
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:31 am
I'd have to agree with acmack about the Volvo. I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to "muddy the waters" for Major519's desision on the Pinz vs 'Mog
But, if you want a truck that is built for a larger framed person has a liguid cooled 6 cyl. B30 car engine (easy to get parts for) instead of an air cooled 4 banger and can keep up with traffic (Volvos top out at around 70mph) the Volvo with it's portal axles may be what your looking for. They tend to be more expencive than the pinz or mog I'd rate from cheapest to most expencive to buy as Unimog 404, pinzgauer710M, pinzgauer712M than the Volvo C303/TGB11 But I'd rate the Volvo next to the mog in price on parts and the pinz as most expencive. The Volvos come in three basic varities C303 hard top 4X4 (looks like a lunch box on wheels) the rather cool TGB1111 (they call 'em eleven elevens) which was a soft top tank buster variant and then the larger C306 which was a 6X6 version of the C303. I'll have to do some digging but I do have some links to Volvo websites with these trucks on them. One site that comes to mind right off hand is: www.real4X4.com
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:42 pm
Well, if you want a further comparison, you need to include a LR 101. Each has it its own plus and minuses.
As far as speed, A 710 Pinz has no problem doing over 70mph and a 712 66 mph with 255/85 tires. The Land Rover 101 is supposelly able to do 79mph, but my Vampire isn't able to move that fast ( just way too heavy)
Lastly,up to a 1991 716/18 Pinz is legal for importation into Canada (15 year law). A truly civilized military vehicle with power steering, 4 wheel disc brakes, and over 80mph.
Sometime it comes down to a Chevy / Ford thing.
Me? I'm kind of a LandRover/Pinzgauer/Haflinger/Mog guy
It all comes back to what Major519 wants.
if your interest is to the Volvos:
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:26 am
True in the end Major519 has to make the desision for himself. I tend to like MVs no matter the time period or Country of origin. Personally, if I was looking for a "daily driver" and lived in Canada (where I could get one) and could afford it I'd strongly look at a diesel pinz. Some time ago I looked at a diesel unimog (416) it ran really well had disc brakes was kind of peppy (well for a 'mog).On the down side, it was really cramped inside as a result of the hard cab and the price for replacement parts was very expencive.
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:54 am
For some reason, I cannot come to see "Unimog" and "peppy" used in the same sentence.
I had test drove a 1300L with standard axles and OM352 NA diesel.... that was enough to let me know I would have to have one with a TD and fast axles (a small increase in RR).
The TD Pinz is a evolution in the Pinz and comparing the gas models against the TDs is.....well,it's like comparing a Mog 404 against a 710 Pinz (but not that close
). So little is interchangeable between the two, you would be shocked.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:40 pm
As far as top speed goes the C303 will comfortably criuse at 75 mph and can be pushed to 85 on a level road. With it's long leaf springs it's soaks up minor bumps as well as large so your ride is always smooth. I think off road it's beefy rigid axel gives you a more firm, planted to the ground, feel rather than the wobbly feel you can get with independantly sprung axels.
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:11 am
Thanks for all the answers on this dilemma.
And thanks especially to adding the Volvo into the mix just to make me more crazy! I certainly have lots of looking to do now...
To answer some questions, I am basically looking for a good driver that I can confortably drive on the highway. I am tired of driving old army trucks at 45mph and getting the finger or the horn from all those who just don`t understand.
As stated previously, I have enjoyed all kinds of mvs and appreciate all from different perspectives.
I would like something that I can off road as well as highway drive and have something different as well, thats why I`m looking here. It still sounds like a Pinz is what I am looking for as the Unimog is too tractor like. I have driven enough Canadian Military pattern vehicles to get this effect and its time for something new.
Now that the Volvo is in the mix I`ve got some investigating to do.
Did I mention that I am a good sized lad at 6`3" and about 235lbs. I test fit a Pinz and it didn`t seem too bad...
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:59 am
Well, well. Now I have the task of trying to compare the Volvo into the mix. Thanks to all who are helping me out on this one.
I did follow the links to the Volvo pages and am quite interested in these as well.
It seems to me that the Volvo is actually cooler looking than the Pinz, as it seems to be a little bigger and more rugged looking.
What can you tell me about parts and vehicle availability in the US?
I see that I can buy for a reasonable price direct from Sweden and of course pay an arm and a leg for shipping...
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:13 am
The Volvo uses the B30 6 cylinder car engine so most parts are available. I knew a C303 owner who was able to buy a complete set of tune up parts, water pump and an altinator at a NAPA parts store for his beast. bearings,races & seals also cross over to Timkin part #s. I agree with you that the Volvo is a cooler looking vehicle than the pinz accecpt for the Diesel pinzs, they're pretty cool looking too. I can relate to your quest for a tactical MV (not a Chevy CUCV or Dodge 880) that you can actually use as a daily driver. If I don't go for one of the European rigs (Pinz/Volvo/Mog/LR) it'll be an M37 with all the upgrades available on it. That can be expensive as hell and take a long time to do (more so when your on a budget). My advice to you is before you buy, if it's posiable drive them and see whitch ones for you.
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:24 am
Yeah I guess "peppy" wasn't the word to use when talking about Mog's
I just felt that the diesel 416 I drove had a little more "get up & go" than the 404 I'd driven previously. I thought I really wanted a 404 until I got behind the wheel and drove one! I still think that they are the best looking of all the Mogs though.