M274 or M274a1

M274 Mechanical Mule Wanted, For Sale (NO AUCTION or EBAY), and Knowledge Base
fussboys
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M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:10 pm

Hello,
The data plates are blank replacements. Is there a serial number stamped on the vehicle in another location?
Is there a way to tell between these 2 models by looking at them without dismantling anything?

Thanks


Chuck W.
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:21 pm

No, serial numbers were only on the data plates. M274 only had one hole position in the deck for the seat back, all other models had two sets of holes that made the seat back adjustable. M274 had a band brake, all others had shoe-type brake.

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:59 pm

Thanks for that info. I will check out the seat position tomorrow in the daylight.
Were M274 Mules ever converted to M274a1?
If this mule has the 1 seat position, would that mean the brakes would be the band type? or could some updates to a1 be done and not others?
Were small changes done to a M274 during the time frame they were built that would help narrow down the year it was built? Since my data plate is blank, I don't have a clue at this time.
Thanks

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by major519 » Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:17 am

Further to Chucks reply
Easiest way to ID mules is from the deck.
M274 one set of seat holes, two mufflers
M274A1 two sets of seat holes, two mufflers
As he also noted band brake on the M274.
By this point in time anything and everything might have been done with your mule. You could have everything from
swapped engines to swapped axles.
Let us know what you find. Is your mule a 4cyl?
1968 M274A5 USMC 325489
1966 M274A2 USMC 333007
1958 M274 US ARMY 2B3379
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715
1981 M101CDN Manac 3/4 trailer
1984 M1009 CUCV
1943 Converto Airborne Trailer

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:06 am

Were M274 Mules ever converted to M274a1?
No, the M27-A1 was built under it's own contract. When the M274's were converted to 2 cylinder engines, they became M274-A3's. When the M274-A1's were converted, they became M274-A4's.
Were small changes done to a M274 during the time frame they were built that would help narrow down the year it was built?
Very few, does your mule have lifting rings on the wheel hubs?
If this mule has the 1 seat position, would that mean the brakes would be the band type? or could some updates to a1 be done and not others?
anything is possible!

fussboys
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:33 am

The engine was swapped in the late 70's so it's not the original engine, but it is a Willys 4 cylinder. One set of seat holes in the deck. I don't think it has the correct engine guard as the engine can't be turned over with a piece of it in the way.
It has lift rings on the hubs.
So the military would not have done any a1 updates, like brakes, they would have been a civilian mod? I have no idea what brakes are on this mule, I was only trying to figure out if it was an a1 or not. Sounds like with the 1 set of seat holes it is a M274, not a M274a1.
I see that a Mule can be towed, but doesn't look like it can tow another mule or a trailer?

Thanks

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:21 am

Single seat holes makes it an M274 deck. The very early machines did not have the hub lifting rings. I would think that yours is probably 1959/1960 model.
You can look at the brake drum and tell which style you have:
Early brake drum: Image

Later brake drum: Image
So the military would not have done any a1 updates,
No
I see that a Mule can be towed, but doesn't look like it can tow another mule or a trailer?
There was never any factory provisions for a hitch on the mule.
I don't think it has the correct engine guard as the engine can't be turned over with a piece of it in the way.
The M274 engine guard had provisions for a hand crank to start the engine. The had crank was stored in the bottom of the foot basket. There was no expanded metal in the bottom of the foot basket. Most of those style foot baskets were replaced and an original M274 basket with hand crank storage brackets is extremely rare today.

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:15 am

The foot basket has the expanded metal bottom. I would like to find the original basket and engine guard someday. I'm going to check on the drums. Did the Army and Marines versions have any differences? I'm going to paint this one next summer and need to figure out the color.
Thanks

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:04 am

I would like to find the original basket and engine guard someday.
Better start saving your pennies, IF you can even find them, they will be extremely pricey!
Did the Army and Marines versions have any differences? I'm going to paint this one next summer and need to figure out the color.
If you search through the mule forum, you will find many discussions on Marine and Army colors and markings. BTW - does your mule still have the registration number on the side?

fussboys
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:53 pm

It has been painted, probably at least a couple of times. No numbers of any kind that I can see. I saw where some guys said their mule had numbers under the data plate. I should check there just to make sure.
If I can't find anything original, I still would like it to have an Army, Navy, or Marines Registry number. Can you help with anything close to 1959 or 1960, if that is what this mule is likely to have been? Would the brake drum style help with dating?

Thanks

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:38 pm

It's about 95% that your mule was USMC. Paint would be 24079 Lusterless Forrest Green. I would think that the serial number would be something like "M274-11XXX" and the registration number would be something like "2B42XX". The M274 was unique in that the serial number stamped on the data plate had "M274-" as the prefix, none of the other models did. If you decide that it is an M274, John Emery will have the correct reproduction data plate for it.
Image

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major519
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by major519 » Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:26 pm

Get some pics uploaded and we can help you better!!!
1968 M274A5 USMC 325489
1966 M274A2 USMC 333007
1958 M274 US ARMY 2B3379
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715
1981 M101CDN Manac 3/4 trailer
1984 M1009 CUCV
1943 Converto Airborne Trailer

fussboys
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:31 pm

There was nothing found under the blank repro M274 data plate. I couldn't see any outline under the paint of the Reg.#. The brake drum is the later style.
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fussboys
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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by fussboys » Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:56 pm

Chuck W.,
I do want to ID this mule to being a M274. This evening, I talked to the former owner that originally bought this Mule from the salvage yard that operated next door to the Tooele Army Depot in Utah back in the mid-70's. He remembers the mule as having a new deck on it when he got it. He didn't save any numbers from the deck when he painted it because he doesn't remember it as ever having any markings, or tag on it. He suggested that I try sanding the deck to see if there is anything there, but he thinks it was an NOS deck. In the late 70's he bought an NOS M274 engine from a swap meet in N. Cal, and removed the original engine that he believed was an M274a1 engine. I like the idea of painting the mule a Marine green and giving it a USMC Reg.#, and a late model M274 serial number.
Thank you, I really appreciate your help,
Greg

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Re: M274 or M274a1

Post by Chuck W. » Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:55 am

This sounds like a mule that was bodged together from a lot of parts. The later style brake drum makes me think it may be an A2 with an early bed. It IS 4-wheel steer, right? One thing you can check is the transmission shift poppet ball plugs. The early M274 transmissions only had one on the driver's side, all others had two, item #4 below:
Image

Also, there is an early and late 4-cylinder engine.
Early engine:
Image

Series 2 engine:
Image

At this point, without a close personal examination of your mule, I can't say what it is. Perhaps take a bunch of photos from all angles, top, bottom and engine and we might be able to come up with something.


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