Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
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Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,
Thanks to Jos I get the opportunity to restore a (slat grill) Autolite speedometer as well as a (little) later (late 1942 Early 1943) Moto-Meter speedometer.
These are the pictures:
Autolite:
Moto-Meter:
(I should have taken off the bracket of the Autolite so that it was more clear that there was not any difference).
I will report on the restoration of both in my GPW/MB Speedometer restoration thread in the MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base section.
(viewtopic.php?f=4&t=328478#p1910754)
For now I want to report on the differences between the Autolite and the (early) Moto-Meter.
I am not exactly clear yet on what happened but at some moment in time Autolite became Moto-Meter.
Also, when you open an Autolite speedometer, the inside is the same as the inside of a Moto-Meter.
On the frame of the Autolite one sees the Moto-Meter logo and the frame is exactly the same as the frame one finds back in all Moto-Meters (also the later ones):
Also the odometer rolls, jewel, magnet, speedcup, field plate, hairspring, reset shaft are completely equal.
From the outside when you look from the back, all also seems equal.
So what exactly is the difference and what makes one so much more valuable than the other?
First the most obvious differences:
The dial plate and the pointer:
(Left the Autolite, right the Moto-Meter)
Second the bezel:
(More difficult to see and picture, but definitely different)
The Autolite bezel detail
The Moto-Meter bezel detail
OK, if you want detail you get detail. These are cross sections of the bezels (not crimped) (Blue):
Third the casings. Even though they are almost equal there is are two differences.
1. The Moto-Meter has the logo:
The Autolite does not:
2. The ridge over which the bezel is crimped is more wide for the Moto-Meter than for the Autolite:
(Left the Moto-Meter and right the Autolite)
Fourth difference is the glass retainer. This you can see in the pictures of logo vs. no logo above and on the drawing (black part).
The final (fifth difference) is the trip meter reset shaft bracket:
(Left is Autolite and right is Moto-Meter)
If the five above mentioned parts are in good condition, one can perfectly restore a very early Autolite slat speedometer with easier to get later Moto-Meter parts.
I am thinking here e.g. odometer rolls, magnet, hairspring and even casing.
Hope this will help somebody (and google search gets them here).
Greetings
Hans
Thanks to Jos I get the opportunity to restore a (slat grill) Autolite speedometer as well as a (little) later (late 1942 Early 1943) Moto-Meter speedometer.
These are the pictures:
Autolite:
Moto-Meter:
(I should have taken off the bracket of the Autolite so that it was more clear that there was not any difference).
I will report on the restoration of both in my GPW/MB Speedometer restoration thread in the MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base section.
(viewtopic.php?f=4&t=328478#p1910754)
For now I want to report on the differences between the Autolite and the (early) Moto-Meter.
I am not exactly clear yet on what happened but at some moment in time Autolite became Moto-Meter.
Also, when you open an Autolite speedometer, the inside is the same as the inside of a Moto-Meter.
On the frame of the Autolite one sees the Moto-Meter logo and the frame is exactly the same as the frame one finds back in all Moto-Meters (also the later ones):
Also the odometer rolls, jewel, magnet, speedcup, field plate, hairspring, reset shaft are completely equal.
From the outside when you look from the back, all also seems equal.
So what exactly is the difference and what makes one so much more valuable than the other?
First the most obvious differences:
The dial plate and the pointer:
(Left the Autolite, right the Moto-Meter)
Second the bezel:
(More difficult to see and picture, but definitely different)
The Autolite bezel detail
The Moto-Meter bezel detail
OK, if you want detail you get detail. These are cross sections of the bezels (not crimped) (Blue):
Third the casings. Even though they are almost equal there is are two differences.
1. The Moto-Meter has the logo:
The Autolite does not:
2. The ridge over which the bezel is crimped is more wide for the Moto-Meter than for the Autolite:
(Left the Moto-Meter and right the Autolite)
Fourth difference is the glass retainer. This you can see in the pictures of logo vs. no logo above and on the drawing (black part).
The final (fifth difference) is the trip meter reset shaft bracket:
(Left is Autolite and right is Moto-Meter)
If the five above mentioned parts are in good condition, one can perfectly restore a very early Autolite slat speedometer with easier to get later Moto-Meter parts.
I am thinking here e.g. odometer rolls, magnet, hairspring and even casing.
Hope this will help somebody (and google search gets them here).
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hi Hans,
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the differences. Is the other (disassembled) Moto-Meter I sent exactly the same as the one you discribe?
I'm sure you will do a great job and they will be an eye catcher in my jeeps!
Thanks,
Jos
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the differences. Is the other (disassembled) Moto-Meter I sent exactly the same as the one you discribe?
I'm sure you will do a great job and they will be an eye catcher in my jeeps!
Thanks,
Jos
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello Jos,
The other (disassembled) Moto-Meter you send me is a late 1943 to 1945 Moto-Meter. Frame, odometer rolls, magnet, speedcup, field plate, jewel, hairspring, ... are the same as the early Moto-Meter and Autolite described above.
The pointer would be a short one however and the the casing including reset shaft is different as it is weatherized.
This is a picture of the casing, bezel with glass retainer and the rusted reset shaft/bracket assembly. The casing has a hole for the reset shaft exit that is slanted (The hole in the Autolite and early Moto-Meter casing is just flat which you can see in pictures of the backs of the closed speedometer in the first post).
This makes it different.
So to answer your question: No, it is not exactly he same.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,
In the meantime both speedometers are restored:
While restoring I realized that I forgot to mention a sixth difference:
The size of the glass and the gaskets.
For the Autolite the diameter is 81 mm. For the Motometer (and all other speedometers) the diameter is 89 mm.
The latter makes that also the tolls used to crimp the bezel on the casing have to be adapted.
Greetings
Hans
In the meantime both speedometers are restored:
While restoring I realized that I forgot to mention a sixth difference:
The size of the glass and the gaskets.
For the Autolite the diameter is 81 mm. For the Motometer (and all other speedometers) the diameter is 89 mm.
The latter makes that also the tolls used to crimp the bezel on the casing have to be adapted.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello Hans,htc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:14 amHello,
In the meantime both speedometers are restored:
While restoring I realized that I forgot to mention a sixth difference:
The size of the glass and the gaskets.
For the Autolite the diameter is 81 mm. For the Motometer (and all other speedometers) the diameter is 89 mm.
The latter makes that also the tolls used to crimp the bezel on the casing have to be adapted.
Greetings
Hans
I hope you had a nice Christmas !!
That is beautiful work on restoring those original speedometers, thanks for sharing and I am sure it will inspire others who are doing similar work !
Best Regards,
Ray
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,htc wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:31 am
Third the casings. Even though they are almost equal there is are two differences.
1. The Moto-Meter has the logo:
The Autolite does not:
2. The ridge over which the bezel is crimped is more wide for the Moto-Meter than for the Autolite:
(Left the Moto-Meter and right the Autolite)
There is a third difference when you look at he casing. I did find out about it today when reading some of Chuck's contributions to the jeep world.
How I will miss Chuck and is unique knowledge. I do not believe that there has been or will be anybody that is, was, and will be as good in the identification of jeep related stuff. So sad he left us. (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=333151).
Hopefully we will always have access to his contributions to G503 forum (and maybe Surface Zero? Not sure how this works.)
The diameter of the two threaded parts that are used to hold the bracket are not the same.
For the Autolite these are much wider.
This also means that the screws used to hold the brackets are different.
(just for being complete...)
Greetings
Hans
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- Thomas Jacobson
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Time for my annual warning about radium on speedometers
Folks,
From an old post:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=267645&p=1560593#p1560593
As I noted, radium is a nasty carcinogen, and has a half life of something like 1600 years... the fact that the needle is now brown and does not glow is simply that the radium has burnt out all the luminous paint, the radium is still all there, and as a dust, it is almost impossible to remove or collect up..... be very carful.
Best,
T.
(BTW, If you want to know if you have some on your work bench etc. try getting one of those Civil Defense Geiger counters, model CDV-700 (must be the 700, not other CD meters).. they can be found about around $100, and are simple and reliable. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_V-700 )
From an old post:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=267645&p=1560593#p1560593
As I noted, radium is a nasty carcinogen, and has a half life of something like 1600 years... the fact that the needle is now brown and does not glow is simply that the radium has burnt out all the luminous paint, the radium is still all there, and as a dust, it is almost impossible to remove or collect up..... be very carful.
Best,
T.
(BTW, If you want to know if you have some on your work bench etc. try getting one of those Civil Defense Geiger counters, model CDV-700 (must be the 700, not other CD meters).. they can be found about around $100, and are simple and reliable. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_V-700 )
Thomas Jacobson
02/24/42 Slatgrill
MVPA 13070
Northwest Wisconsin
thomas@tcjnet.com
http://thomas.tcjnet.com/mbgpw/
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Re: Time for my annual warning about radium on speedometers
Thomas Jacobson wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:46 amFolks,
From an old post:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=267645&p=1560593#p1560593
As I noted, radium is a nasty carcinogen, and has a half life of something like 1600 years... the fact that the needle is now brown and does not glow is simply that the radium has burnt out all the luminous paint, the radium is still all there, and as a dust, it is almost impossible to remove or collect up..... be very carful.
Best,
T.
(BTW, If you want to know if you have some on your work bench etc. try getting one of those Civil Defense Geiger counters, model CDV-700 (must be the 700, not other CD meters).. they can be found about around $100, and are simple and reliable. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_V-700 )
Hello,
An excellent safety reminder about the radioactive paint and dust on these gauges.
I have that Civil Defense geiger counter, and it works great.
The WW2 Jeeps all have radioactive speedometers, the other gauges are clear.
The M series jeeps/trucks have even more active radioactive paint, and it is on all the gauges.
I have a post war, VDO German made speedometer in a French return MB, it is also radioactive.
You should always practice safety first, and carefully contain and dispose of the radioactive debris from the paint and paint dust, and not spread it
all over your workshop areas !!
Maybe a good idea is also to wear a P100 respirator when opening them up or disturbing the paint dust.
Best Regards,
Ray
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Thank you Ray and Thomas,
Yes you are right. The radium is something I do take into account.
I have or am restoring almost 50 speedometers now and it is certainly something to take in to account.
I started a thread about this threat some time ago and asked all of you for advice:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=328298
I did also buy a vintage radiation monitor for 300 euro (used also by another G member who told me about it) and I use it before, after, in between and as much as I can. It is surprising how long it takes to have zero radiation ...
It is part of the cost of restoring a speedometer as this has to be done correct. I prefer a non glowing speedometer to a dangerous one (not so much after the restoration when it is sealed and behind glass but more for me, "the restorer")
And, really, tell me, who needs his speedometer to glow in the dark? Who drives his jeep in the dark, close to other vehicles and without lights at 10 to 20 mph?.
This being said, GP speedometers do not have the radium, neither do the Autolite I ones (used in the slat).
Greetings
Hans
Yes you are right. The radium is something I do take into account.
I have or am restoring almost 50 speedometers now and it is certainly something to take in to account.
I started a thread about this threat some time ago and asked all of you for advice:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=328298
I did also buy a vintage radiation monitor for 300 euro (used also by another G member who told me about it) and I use it before, after, in between and as much as I can. It is surprising how long it takes to have zero radiation ...
It is part of the cost of restoring a speedometer as this has to be done correct. I prefer a non glowing speedometer to a dangerous one (not so much after the restoration when it is sealed and behind glass but more for me, "the restorer")
And, really, tell me, who needs his speedometer to glow in the dark? Who drives his jeep in the dark, close to other vehicles and without lights at 10 to 20 mph?.
This being said, GP speedometers do not have the radium, neither do the Autolite I ones (used in the slat).
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,
Up to now I have been talking about the differences between the Autolite type I speedometer as used in MB slats and the early Motometer (aka Type III) speedometer.
There is however also a Autolite type II speedometer which followed the type I but preceeded the early Motometer.
It was used in later MB slats.
It has miles tics but is has the same slanted pointer and the Type I.
This is the Autolite II as I got it:
The Type II is pretty rare as it was used in less than 10.000 MB's starting mid March 1942.
I have restored the speedometer and will report on it in the thread on MB and GPW speedometer restoration.
This thread however is about differences so that is why I am making this post.
It will be a short post as the ONLY difference between the Autolite I and the Autolite II is the dial face.
This is the dial face:
As one can see it has tics for the miles which the Autolite I does not. Also the font of the characters is different from the Type I.
I traced the dial plate with Coreldraw to make the decal:
Quite a lot of work to realize afterwards that the Autolite II dial is exactly similar to the Motometer Type III dial face only with a smaller border.
In this picture one can see the Motometer dial and the Autolite II dial, the latter having the smaller diameter (White circle).
(The rectangles for the odometer openings in the decal are smaller than what they are in the finished decal. They only serve a a guide for applying the decal).
The only difference between Autolite I and (the rare) Autolite II being the dial plate, one can imagine turning a "I" into a "II" during a restoration process.
I will report on the restoration process later in the other thread, but in a preview I show you the Autolite II after restoration (before OD and closing):
Greetings
Hans
PS. With respect to radiation I would like to mention that for the Autolite II only the pointer did have the Radium paint, not the tics. This is different from the Motometer type III where also the 10 and 20 mph tics have Radium paint.
Not sure about the Type I. I did not make measurements with that one ...
Up to now I have been talking about the differences between the Autolite type I speedometer as used in MB slats and the early Motometer (aka Type III) speedometer.
There is however also a Autolite type II speedometer which followed the type I but preceeded the early Motometer.
It was used in later MB slats.
It has miles tics but is has the same slanted pointer and the Type I.
This is the Autolite II as I got it:
The Type II is pretty rare as it was used in less than 10.000 MB's starting mid March 1942.
I have restored the speedometer and will report on it in the thread on MB and GPW speedometer restoration.
This thread however is about differences so that is why I am making this post.
It will be a short post as the ONLY difference between the Autolite I and the Autolite II is the dial face.
This is the dial face:
As one can see it has tics for the miles which the Autolite I does not. Also the font of the characters is different from the Type I.
I traced the dial plate with Coreldraw to make the decal:
Quite a lot of work to realize afterwards that the Autolite II dial is exactly similar to the Motometer Type III dial face only with a smaller border.
In this picture one can see the Motometer dial and the Autolite II dial, the latter having the smaller diameter (White circle).
(The rectangles for the odometer openings in the decal are smaller than what they are in the finished decal. They only serve a a guide for applying the decal).
The only difference between Autolite I and (the rare) Autolite II being the dial plate, one can imagine turning a "I" into a "II" during a restoration process.
I will report on the restoration process later in the other thread, but in a preview I show you the Autolite II after restoration (before OD and closing):
Greetings
Hans
PS. With respect to radiation I would like to mention that for the Autolite II only the pointer did have the Radium paint, not the tics. This is different from the Motometer type III where also the 10 and 20 mph tics have Radium paint.
Not sure about the Type I. I did not make measurements with that one ...
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
I'm drinking sweet milk when I see such a restoration.
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Yves
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Yves
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Haha Yves,
Thank you for your nice words.
If you have some milk left please have look at the restoration process itself:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=328478&p=1945787#p1945787
Greetings
Hans
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,
In an effort to make this thread more complete, I do post two pages scanned by Bill M and which describe the parts and the structure of the Autolite speedometers as used in and before 1942.
Three Autolite speedometers are described:
SPK-4001 and SPK-4001B. The only difference is the pointer. I have no clue what the difference is... But anyway, these are what we call the Autolite I.
SPK-4002 (aka Autolite II). From the description there are more differences than only the dial plate. It seems also bezel, glass, gaskets, glass retainer, mounting screws, trip reset knob and casing are different. I did not notice that but will keep an eye out next time I get to restore one.
These are the documents published before by Bill M.
Hope this helps somebody.
( I love this kind of documents )
Greetings
Hans
In an effort to make this thread more complete, I do post two pages scanned by Bill M and which describe the parts and the structure of the Autolite speedometers as used in and before 1942.
Three Autolite speedometers are described:
SPK-4001 and SPK-4001B. The only difference is the pointer. I have no clue what the difference is... But anyway, these are what we call the Autolite I.
SPK-4002 (aka Autolite II). From the description there are more differences than only the dial plate. It seems also bezel, glass, gaskets, glass retainer, mounting screws, trip reset knob and casing are different. I did not notice that but will keep an eye out next time I get to restore one.
These are the documents published before by Bill M.
Hope this helps somebody.
( I love this kind of documents )
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: Autolite vs. Early Moto-Meter Speedometer differences
Hello,
I am restoring two Autolite I (used in the early slat) and a couple of Motometer type III (long needle and not weatherproofed) so I get to see (too much?) of it.
I found another difference!
The bridge or bridge assembly are not the same.
These are some picture. Top is used in the Autolite I and bottom is used in the Motometers.
I know, this is really a detail but hey it keeps me busy ...
Greetings
Hans
I am restoring two Autolite I (used in the early slat) and a couple of Motometer type III (long needle and not weatherproofed) so I get to see (too much?) of it.
I found another difference!
The bridge or bridge assembly are not the same.
These are some picture. Top is used in the Autolite I and bottom is used in the Motometers.
I know, this is really a detail but hey it keeps me busy ...
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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