Live-firing weapon and public events

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sonofahellcat
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Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by sonofahellcat » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:32 pm

I'm looking to purchase a 1919A4 for my GPW and I'm considering a replica or semi-auto. Since I plan to use the Jeep in parades, historical events, etc... I was curious to hear what experiences members have had with bringing live-fire weapons to these types of events. Have there been issues or restrictions with the organizers? Any other concerns?

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Ted
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President, 12th Armored Division Assoc.
Member MVCC


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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by GUNNUT in Iowa » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:30 pm

You will not have any problem with it at the BA-DA BA-DA BING BANG Rally.

Signed -

GUNNUT in Iowa
(The BA-DA BA-DA BING BANG Guy)


One exception. I will not let you shoot live rounds.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by junking » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:06 am

We have never had a problem. Just to prevent a possible problem, we now take out he inner parts (bolt/barrel) and replace it with a black painted closet rod for barrel and block of black 2x4 for the bolt. We made a fake charging handle that goes into the fake bolt. Never had anyone notice the fake parts.

In our part of the world, technically having a real gun or fake gun on the vehical is brandishing I am told. So we have the gun covered when driving around and only uncover on display or in parades.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Kim Sievert » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:20 pm

Find a way to lock the gun and the cradle down, so they do not get away.
Cable type works pretty good.

Gut any live 1919's and M2hb.
Put in a black painted wood block, to make them look like a non firing replica.

Lock them down.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Kim Sievert » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:06 pm

I was curious to hear what experiences members have had with bringing live-fire weapons to these types of events. Have there been issues or restrictions with the organizers? Any other concerns?
There maybe live weapons at meets, but they are required to be neutered and not be capable of firing.
Same thing can be said for participating in parades, NO live operable guns.
MVPA conventions & MVCC meets, are military vehicle oriented, not gun shows / not weapon training.
Decades ago, the MVCC meets, used to held in rural locations, so a little noise from blank fire / propane fire was tolerated.
But today, the MVCC meets, are mostly held in urban areas,,,, so blank fire / propane fire are discouraged / not tolerated.
If not already a member of the MVCC, become a member at http://www.mvccnews.net/join.html
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Marty, SoCal » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:47 am

Put some bright orange tape on the muzzle, replica/dummy guns need to have an orange muzzle cap in a lot of jurisdictions.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by W. Winget » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:52 am

I do a lot of events which enter Federal property, so anything has to be on a 'List' and approved, further the Gate Guards usually crap when i show up (TOW Jeep with system) and there's a stupid vehicle search (open my display missile tubes?)
Walking weapons into a facility for tables full of historical displays has become almost draconian.

I once answered a call from a local FBI a week after driving my TOW MUTT 6 miles to a museum event which had a sudden rain shower from Hell (no top) Still someone called in a possible terrorist and it took the FBI a week to follow-up, the phone call was funny , as they merely asked if I had been out driving with a missile launcher last week and I told them why, etc. and they thanked me...so I am "known" :shock: by the FBO...sad... :oops:

Had a guy pull up to me when I took my Brothers jeep out in the Winter about 30 years back, he was MAD as Hell, :evil: rolled the window down and yelled to me "You can't have that" pointing to the (well carved... wood) .50 Cal on the jeep. I told him I "CAN" legally have a MG, I even have artillery, but this one is actually a WOODEN (yes I shouted at him) replica so 'Go On with you"

Put it on your jeep and make sure to become known by the local LEO's that it's a dummy. or real, but your responsible... and you may be left alone. A visit to a community event like Founders Day, 4th July, etc. where the locals are out and about doesn't hurt either if you stop and engage the LEO's so they are comfortable with the "Why" you carry a MG on the historical vehicle and that you are not the issue they have to worry about.

Others have commented on meetings and organizations, they are becoming stupid as well, when in doubt ask the organizers before just doing your own thing.

Last straw for me attending the Yorktown Day parade (celebrating Victory in Yorktown over the British and closure of the Revolutionary War) was they wouldn't allow my Rubber Dummy rifles in the mounts on my Command Car as Grand Marshal vehicle...after doing the same parade for 19+ years...I said Good Bye..
V/R W Winget
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Kim Sievert » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:04 am

A recommendation, when on the open road, have the gun (1919a4 or M2HB) dismounted or bagged in am original cover.
25 years of traveling California highways, with my scout car, with a mounted repro M2HB, sitting under a original canvas gun cover, no problems.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Cal.Bar » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 am

OP, you are in CA!!!??? (as I am). There are a TON of gun laws you need to be familiar with with a gun like that.

First - No guns on school grounds (or within a 1000 feet of a school - ANY school) (Plan on having an event at a school or near one)
Second - No guns on Federal installations.

Next - CA has firearm safe storage laws. YOU are criminally AND civilly liable if your firearm is taken and used inappropriately if it was incorrectly stored. (mounted in the open on a jeep left unattended could be exactly that)

No so much a concern with a parade, but no more than 10 rounds in a belt (unless you had that belt before 2000) (or made up during the freedom week)

All-in-all I keep my real 1919a4 in the safe where it belongs and take it to the range to enjoy it. I mounted a VERY accurate replica on the jeep so I can drive around town and not have to worry about it.

Think really hard about mounting a real 1919a4 on your jeep here in CA.

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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by GUNNUT in Iowa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:33 am

Cal.Bar wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 am

snip . . .

Think really hard about mounting a real 1919a4 on your jeep here in CA.
Think really hard about - - - - - - moving out of CA.

(Somebody had to say it.)
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by Cal.Bar » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:21 pm

GUNNUT in Iowa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:33 am
Cal.Bar wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 am

snip . . .

Think really hard about mounting a real 1919a4 on your jeep here in CA.
Think really hard about - - - - - - moving out of CA.

(Somebody had to say it.)
You won't hear ME arguing! California and guns are oil and water.

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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by sonofahellcat » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:41 am

Thanks everyone for the feedback and information. I really appreciate the input. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Ted
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President, 12th Armored Division Assoc.
Member MVCC

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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by John Neuenburg » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:41 pm

There are two basic issues here - what violates the CA Penal Code and if a typical law enforcement officer (LEO) will bust you for it. First let's consider the latter. This is a nice long stay-at-home COVID post:

I will bet that the vast majority of Californians who have shootable firearms, decactivated shootable firearms, or dummy guns, mounted on or transported in a historic military vehicle (HMV) have not experienced trouble from LEOs. I had zero trouble driving my M20 Armored Utility Car with covered dummy M2 on ring mount and six A/T mines in full view. That includes a half dozen 160 mile round trips to the Tower Park meet through Marin, Sonoma, Napa, Solano, Sacramento, and San Joaquin Counties. Part of those trips were on a freeway past one of the biggest CHP truck scales. I drove a handful of times to Petaluma and Santa Rosa. Once to Danville across the Richmond San Rafael Bridge through Contra Costa County, and back through the bridge toll plaza (LEO on duty). Twice across the Golden Gate Bridge into San Francisco. One of those times I was sitting at the toll booth in the right lane while the toll-taker lady with mouth open in disbelief was trying to figure out what to charge me and I heard a man's voice, probably a LEO, yell from the toll sergeant's window, "It's a Greyhound!" (close but not quite). And several runs through the settled part of Marin County, home of Barbara Boxer, including to a dive bar to meet buddies to watch the Daytona 500. Parked it right out front on the busy boulevard for 3 hours. No trouble. Didn't even get stopped. Well... at least I didn't SEE any LEOs. Bad visibility in that rig. Come to think of it I thought I ran over some spike strips once but those old tires would never be punctured. Anyway, no inspections, no tickets, no perp walks for me!

Wait, that's not exactly true. We drove the M20 to St. Helena in northern Napa County to meet other MVers for an overnighter and MV tour around the area. Arrived downtown at 6 pm in August on a Friday night. Tourists everywhere. By the time we went the six blocks to the fairgrounds and our campground, all three St. Helena cops were on our tail. I parked next to the other MVers, got out, and we all shot the breeze with them for 20 minutes. One told me "We received numerous calls." What people thought I was I will never know, maybe they thought a war was on and the Army was on the move! Pretty sure the LEOs knew we had a little event happening because others had arrived. They really liked the MVs.

No matter what is on the pedestal or trolley, here is what I recommend to avoid being stopped while driving around. The word "gun" means all three categories above:
Cover a machine gun
Put rifle in a case or out of sight. I think one in a US weapon carrier like on a jeep windshield is OK
If not going to a display or parade I'd leave the small guns home
Best if the HMV looks like one. A replica ISIS Technical Toyota pickup with Russian MG in the back is asking for trouble
Best at least one person in the HMV wears a obsolete uniform that roughly goes with the HMV. LIke a field jacket and G.I. cap.
Another option is a generic "uniform" of OD or khaki shirt, trousers, with MVPA or local MV club patch on sleeve, baseball cap with patch. A hobbyist look.
And if stopped, good insurance is to have a MVPA or MV club membership card handy, a few of the old MVCC business cards if still available (ask Kurt Lesser), a newsletter, MV magazine in glove box. All this is insurance in case of questioning.
The goal is to look like a hobbyist!
And if using a Historic Vehicle License plate, "I am going to a parade" or "I am on a maintenance check before my next event."
Supporting your local patriotic parades is a good way for you and your HMV to get known by LEOs.

Now let's look at what is legal and the three categories of "guns" as mentioned in paragraph 2. I am not an expert on the law but here is what I have read lately. A firearm that is concealable (a handgun) must be transported in a locked trunk or locked container inside a vehicle. An unconcealable firearm, which means rifle, carbine, shotgun, semi-M1919, does not. Period. My read on this is we are transporting our gun on a pedestal, gun carrier, I guess even laying on the back seat is OK.

What's not legal in CA is carrying a firearm, loaded or unloaded. We have the Black Panthers to thank for that. They did it in the '70s in Sacramento at the Capital and so this was made illegal. I believe carrying means in the hands or slung or carried in a holster. So I think a semi-auto MG on a pedestal or a M1 rifle in a windshield carrier is OK as long as semi-auto rifles are legal. And again, please cover MGs unless at an event. Less chance of citizen complaints = LEOs notified.

What about non-guns aka dummies? I can't find any info lately about carrying and transporting these except in the airsoft hobby world there is a lot about putting non-gun colors on their parts. Like orange at the muzzle and on other places. When I bought a welded-up dummy Bren a handful of years ago, from a Californian by the way, not having an orange muzzle was OK if it was in a museum or historical display, or movie/video shoot. He shipped it to me with a set of wall hanger hooks and a copy of this law and loophole. If these loopholes still exist then it looks good for our dummies when we are at HMV events and probably going to or from them. I just don't know. I have been transporting my replica British SAS desert jeep to many events lately and it has four dummy MGs in twin mounts. They are covered when on the trailer. No problems.

Firearm laws don't talk about non-guns. Maybe it is legal to drive around with a shootable M1919 semi and illegal if an all parkerized dummy! That would be odd but could be true. But for me I'd use a dummy. It might come down to a LEO wondering if I am actually dangerous. A live M1919 with wood barrel, etc. is probably just as good, or maybe better because it falls under the "transporting an unconcealable firearm" rule, AND it can't easily be made to shoot. So if using a dummy, more research might be a good idea.

If you have read this far and are thinking, "Wow, it's mostly about context, and several gray areas here" you are right and that is probably a good thing.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by John Neuenburg » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:15 am

Forgot to mention that the rule about no firearms within 1,000 feet of a school applies if the person knows the school is there. It looks like ignorance means that law is not broken. But if the person has lived in that neighborhood a long time I would think ignorance would be unlikely.
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Re: Live-firing weapon and public events

Post by W. Winget » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:38 am

Difference in States too, in Virginia I was invited down to school(s) with my live 57mm gun in tow and full complement of WWII weaponry (live) to set up displays for Kindergarten through Seniors in several schools. Some were for History, some were for "fun' showing the kids things.
Just a difference in States and Bureaucracies.
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