Current WC pricing?

[wc56daveyboy]

Hi guys. (Pardon if you see this on other sites)

What are wc51/wc52 trucks going for these days?

I’m not talking about a non runner, drag out of a barn sort of vehicle.

I’m taking about a great running , super clean, all major components in great working order, rust free, complete and titled truck.

Somewhere between a cosmetic restoration and 100% ground up rebuild.

I ask becuse I am about to (or maybe already have) gone over the “no return” cost point on my 1945 wc52

“No return” to me means I got more into it $$ wise what I will get upon selling it.

I keep a good record of expenses on my vehicles from acquisition thru all major purchases.
However, as I’m finding out, to build one cost more than a buyer will pay once you’ve done all the work. In other words, it’s not a good return on investment!

I think some see the asking price and immediately think “heck, I’ll drag that one out of the field I seen, for 2500 bucks and do it myself for less”!!

Well we all know how quickly a “field fresh” or “barn find” truck resto adds up!

Just an idea.
What’s todays market like?

I’m asking this becuse I decided to tally my most recent purchases and got quite a shock!

I know the cost to get me where I’m at, just wondering if at this point I’m gonna loose money..

You all building trucks gotta know what I’m saying

I’ve seen a few wc51 dodges up for sale lately
One a runner but needs full restoration
Even as a runner with a asking price of 7k, this truck needs a full resto to get where I’m at.

I’m guessing, based on my initial purchase price plus knowing the parts cost I’ve put into mine, to compare, the buyer of a $5000- $7000 dollar running project will be close to $20k once done.
Or maybe more depending if it needs a motor rebuild.
Or body work. Or much more.

But is that money well spent or will the owner, if he sells, take a real loss on his investment?

I know a lot of guys will say the “enjoyment” factor needs to be considered too.

Anyway. Love to hear your thoughts
And share your cost to date on your build?
What you paid originally for it?
What you put into it for parts?
What you have done? Frame off?
Cosmetic only?
Somewhere in between?

[Bean]

Prices are crazy right now. You can't buy a rusted parts truck for under $2000.00

[wc56daveyboy]

I’m seeing that.

I think I am going to start buying restored trucks for less money than it takes to restore myself from now on.

[17thAirborne]

Dave,
You are highlighting the reality of the military wheeled vehicle market. In many cases the cost to restore not including labor is more than the final market value of the project. Most are restored for the joy of the hunt for parts, the research and the satisfaction of having done it yourself. I know you have done several yourself.

For investing the money is in rare WMVs and armor. Those are always increasing in value, provided they are already restored. I don't know for sure, but I'll bet the cost to restore a piece of armor given the rarity of parts and the cost to make a part from scratch makes them just as expensive to restore in terms of return on investment. If there was money in restoring GPWs, more would be going into business doing so, but instead the money is in selling parts.

PS: When I did my WC12 I was really thinking I could make a few thousand to put in my GPWs but in the end, the cost of all of the bits and bobs adds up. I see why people take short cuts and use substandard parts and paint instead of complete refinishing. I just can't stomach the shortcuts and know your work is first rate so you and I always end up spending more money and time in the end.

[wc56daveyboy]

Honestly. I’ve never really lost money in the past.
Usually break even. I’m sure maybe a few were a couple hundred to a grand loss, not recording small stuff along the way

This is the first time in 35 years buying and rebuilding Jeeps and trucks that I’ve seen a (potential) loss so great upon sale vs money in

it’s really no big deal as I’m not selling my wc52 right now.

But…. Food for thought

[dpcd67]

I saw a WC51 that sold for a lot more than I thought they were worth at the RI Auction. Rich guys who just want stuff, will buy guns and vehicles there, just because they can and it's easy. I wouldn't say that is a good representative value though. I also saw a similar sold price for a WC63; forgot where. On the internet.
But really, my rule is; never keep track of your expenditures. Definitely don't keep track of your labor hours. I only do meticulous full frame off restorations; it's the process that counts. No point in me buying something that already runs and looks good. When you are ready to sell it, you are only funding the next project. Not a business.
Working on the WC63 again, after building the engine, restoring the cab, frame, etc; now it needs assembly like a big kit. Jeeps keep getting in the way for the past 5 years.
It's a deadly cycle of disease, and also, therapy; the only cure. It releases oxytocin into your brain.

[Diesel Dave]

Personally,I’ve restored 3 mb/gpw and a wc56. All are worth less than the parts/repairs I’ve put in them. And that’s considering my labor at $0! And the costs of parts ect are increasing faster than the values are going up in my opinion.If you don’t enjoy working on them,you’re better off to buy one already done.

[Bean]

My point is That I usually want to buy low to help with the restoration.But at the current prices i can't do that.Listen ,in reality that barn find rusted jeep or truck is worth $500.00 at best to a restorer.So that being said the current prices as they are will kill the hobby

[wc56daveyboy]

No point in me buying something that already runs and looks good. When you are ready to sell it, you are only funding the next project.

Exactly.. I’m also in this camp.. I would prefer to keep my purchases as projects
As I do enjoy the builds

However, this is exactly my point…
After it’s done, I’ll eventually sell.
It would be stupid to LOOSE money on each purchase, then sale, then do it all
Over again?
I mean, as long as I break even, I’m happy. Then I can go onto my next project

It's a deadly cycle of disease, and also, therapy; the only cure. It releases oxytocin into your brain

Ha. Truth for sure!!

And the costs of parts ect are increasing faster than the values are going up in my opinion..

Exactly, Bean..that’s probably what I’m seeing .

If you don’t enjoy working on them,you’re better off to buy one already done

Well that’s true. But I do enjoy working on them.

Just want my money back upon sale, or as close to my outlay of money as possible

[wc56daveyboy]

As Oz writes:

PS: When I did my WC12 I was really thinking I could make a few thousand to put in my GPWs but in the end, the cost of all of the bits and bobs adds up.

Exactly.. if you keep track of ALL those little trips to the hardware store, for nuts and bolts, grinding wheels, cut off wheels, sanding disks, brake cleaner (best product to initially clean parts.. I use a lot it!!)
That ends up being a part of the costs.
Not just the vehicles parts, but the material to do the job

…I see why people take short cuts and use substandard parts and paint instead of complete refinishing. I just can't stomach the shortcuts and know your work is first rate so you and I always end up spending more money and time in the end

Thank you Oz. It’s true. I really like finishing my stuff nicely, maybe not nearly as pristine as what I’ve seen you do, but I do like doing it right!!

I see a lot of project truck out there for sale,be it Jeeps or trucks, with a fresh coat of paint, running on temporary fuel tanks, that the seller lists and states : “just need brakes and fuel system and wiring and new tires and all the missing small items” !!

I think to myself,Sure that looks appealing to the un-informed buyer..said buyer is sure gonna be in for a lot of work!! And cost!

I see them for sale in the above described condition and I add up in my head the cost.

The guy who passes on my Jeep becuse it’s “too much money” turns around and buys a non runner with all the missing hard to find pieces and realizes after he is knee deep that my jeep was the better buy

[17thAirborne]

Dave,
Everything you said is spot on. We are in a different cycle regarding WMV restoration. With 3 GPWs to rebuild, I can see the cost of each being between $10000-$15000 if your include EVERYTHING plus the initial cost of your project which will vary greatly. I began buying 5/16 and 3/8 bolts, nuts and lock washers by the 100s to save on money and those stupid $2.38 trips to town just for cost of gas to buy a $1.50 fitting. Its nice with the GPW as you can turn down the heads to remove the bolt markings and you have a correct bolt.

Here are some general costs off the top of my head, which I know you are well familiar with:

$1800 machining costs engine
$250 gasket set
$250 hardware
$600 tires
$300 new fuel and oil lines
$450 wiring harness
$600 canvas
$300 gauge work/ replacement (Could be much more)
$500 sand blasting costs (unless you have a cabinet and big compressor this could be much more)
$200 paint, by the gal and in rattle cans
$500 bebuild starter genny and dizzy (low estimate)
$250 hoses, fan belts, filters, fittings, seals, anti squeek
$200 exhaust kit
$200 basic carb rebuild (could be up to $400)
$600 axle seals, gaskets, cones, rollers, etc
$400 transmission and TC parts (low end of cost)
$300 shipping costs????

TOTAL in this short list $7700 and this doesn't include everything of course.

ADD:

$2500-$5000 Cost of intial project
$2500-4500 Cost of missing parts such as bumpers, pintle, grab handles, top bows, mirrors, wipers, straps, tool holders, lights, spare tire mount, etc

NEW TOTAL $12700-$17200 (my math may be off)

I think my estimates are probably at the low end, and as you point out labor is free.

What is promissing here in the US is that the cost of very nie GPW/MB restorations are hovering above $20k and more if matching SN. I think breaking even is probably a reasonable assumption.

I have a PILE of receipts in my work shop that I need to add to the spreadsheet. I may be suprised to see I have overshot my targets above. I might not even bother, as some times ignorance is bliss

In the end I LOVE doing the work and research, and if I break even I consider it a bonus.

[mdainsd]

Its a hobby, not an investment for me. Hobbies generally cost money, many non-recoverable. Think about a hobby like taking trips to awesome fishing spots and enjoying a week there. That money isnt coming back, but it made the person happy. Ive been fooling with these things since my first in 1968. Back then it was about getting them running and having fun with them, correctness be darn. Wrecking yard dump truck motors went into M37s, all sorts of "cardinal sins" were enacted. Those all got traded for the next project working up the food chain of completeness...

The last decade or so, I am enjoying the finer and finer details of restoring these vehicles. I've always enjoyed the hunt for bits and pieces, the harder to find the better! Its my hobby!

But...I dont think I am going to lose any money on my vehicles, because as the car sharks say your money is made when you purchase, not when you sell. So being a bit prudent on what you buy goes a long ways to at least ensuring you dont lose a ton of money. come sale time. So when I buy, I look for vehicles that have known desirability. Next priority is completeness and correctness of the candidate vehicle. So the choice between a driveable, good looking MB with a V6 in it and a disassembled numbers matching GPW is a no brainer.

Everyone's goals and results are different. Are you enjoying the journey?

[junking]

All great points! I don't keep very good records so I don't stress how much I have in my projects.

I usually buy older restorstions and just upgrade what I need to freshen it up. I also buy projects, get them street worthy, and drive them that way. I am usually into them at break even or a little in the black. I very much like driving survivor vehicles. They often get more attention than my nicely restored vehicles.

I also have to admit I have a short attention span and prefer shorter projects. I know if it takes more than a year, it is unlikely I will finish it.

Like has already been said, for me it's a hobby and it's about having fun and not about profit.

Happy collecting.