56/57 build card
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56/57 build card
Can somebody put me right i have been working on getting a build card for my WC 57 for four years now but i am not very bright but will manage it one day but in the meantime if a "19" body can be a 56 or 57 and i cannot see winch on the build cards does this mean you cannot tell if it left the factory as a 56 or 57 there is probably a simple answer it just eludes me at the moment many thanks Charlie
- Fred Coldwell
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Re: 56/57 build card
Hi Charlie:
The WC-56 non-winch and WC-57 winch-equipped command cars all have an 8 digit serial number beginning with "81......" that is stamped into your Dodge WC 3/4-ton 4x4 frame, which is the number you will use to order the build card. A serial number also appears stamped on the build card.
If your frame has the longer front extensions for a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-57, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card showing a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-57. If the build card serial number matches your frame serial number but the build card body number is "90", then your winch frame came from a WC-52 weapon carrier or perhaps a winch-equipped WC-55 gun motor carriage that had been rebuild into a command car (for which I don't have a separate body number). But 4 or 5 extra holes in the frame side rails above the rear axle will identify a frame as having come from a WC-55 because those holes were used to secure the gun mounting plate angle irons to the chassis.
If your frame lacks the front extensions for a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-56, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card with a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-56. If the body number on your matching frame number build card is "66", then your frame came from a WC-51 weapon carrier. You did not ask about a WC-58, but its different body code of "29" would identify it such. Hope this helps.
The WC-56 non-winch and WC-57 winch-equipped command cars all have an 8 digit serial number beginning with "81......" that is stamped into your Dodge WC 3/4-ton 4x4 frame, which is the number you will use to order the build card. A serial number also appears stamped on the build card.
If your frame has the longer front extensions for a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-57, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card showing a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-57. If the build card serial number matches your frame serial number but the build card body number is "90", then your winch frame came from a WC-52 weapon carrier or perhaps a winch-equipped WC-55 gun motor carriage that had been rebuild into a command car (for which I don't have a separate body number). But 4 or 5 extra holes in the frame side rails above the rear axle will identify a frame as having come from a WC-55 because those holes were used to secure the gun mounting plate angle irons to the chassis.
If your frame lacks the front extensions for a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-56, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card with a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-56. If the body number on your matching frame number build card is "66", then your frame came from a WC-51 weapon carrier. You did not ask about a WC-58, but its different body code of "29" would identify it such. Hope this helps.
Happy Jeep Trails,
Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C
Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C
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Re: 56/57 build card
Hello Fred yes thanks for coming back my CC is all there up and running and complete i have always had a thought in the back of my mind because of some marks on the front chassis legs it may have been a 56 with a winch conversion serial number is 81541271 body tag 4219 1075 i thought it might have been a 58 when i first got it as it has a giant radio in the back and an aerial with a ceramic like a flying saucer and did all CCs have the voltmeter but i did know 58s had the 29 number i just thought it strange they did not indicate a winch on the build cards which would show it as a 56 or 57 so a build card in its self cannot indicate a 56 or 57 but can indicate between 56/57 and 58 ie 19 or 29 sorry to ramble on just trying to get my head around it all thanks for all your help it is interesting Charlie
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Re: 56/57 build card
There are actually no frame "extensions" on the winch models. The frame is entirely different with longer front frame "horns". The extensions came about right after the war for civilian power wagons and a little later the M37.
I just went through this with my command car. Currently it is on a -51 chassis while I restore the original -57 chassis. I used post war frame extensions so I could get the winch mounted. Note: It is not a simple bolt on conversion
Yes, all the Command Cars of the 3/4T style had the voltmeter and voltmeter switch.
I just went through this with my command car. Currently it is on a -51 chassis while I restore the original -57 chassis. I used post war frame extensions so I could get the winch mounted. Note: It is not a simple bolt on conversion
Yes, all the Command Cars of the 3/4T style had the voltmeter and voltmeter switch.
52 M38 2X, '52 M37, '44 WC51, '42 WC 56/57, '50 CJ-V35(U), '42 GPW, '44 M3A1 Scout Car, 2010 M-Gator
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Re: 56/57 build card
Yes hello there i stayed up late last night and went through all your posts on the rebuild of your CC great stuff really interesting managed to get through it before the wife shouted are you coming to bed! yes i knew about the 2 different frames winch and no winch mine is not perfect on the front chassis rails might have been damage repair it is far from terrible i can just see some marks that do not look perfect along the frame rails behind the winch i do suffer from OCD so maybe i am just being picky also another little thing the grill looks to have been changed the headlight grills are the early ones with the curved wire where the main central grill is the later one with the wires welded on the edge its an early 57 with original DODGE badge below the radiator cap i have an earlier grill like yours with the rods going through so will change that i might be dreaming but i thought there was a wartime field conversion to fit a winch like i have seen on WC54s were these purely post war M37 kits theres a WC54 for sale on milweb at the moment with a winch anyway i am rambling on keep up the good work i have asked for a build card and will let you know what goes on many thanks Charlie
- Fred Coldwell
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Re: 56/57 build card
mdainsd is correct; I should have call the longer frame rails on the WC-57 chassis frame "longer side rails or front horns" instead of frame "extensions", but charlie dodge knew there were two different frames for winch-equipped and non-winch command cars and apparently understood what I meant. For others, because of the 2 hours time limit in which to edit a post on G503.com has long since passed, meaning I cannot edit my earlier post for better clarity, I have copied, corrected, and herewith paste, the better version of what I meant to say:
"If your frame has the longer side rails (or front horns) used to mount a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-57, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card showing a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-57. If the build card serial number matches your frame serial number but the build card body number is "90", then your winch frame came from a WC-52 weapon carrier or perhaps a winch-equipped WC-55 gun motor carriage that had been rebuild into a command car (for which I don't have a separate body number). But 4 or 5 extra holes in the frame side rails above the rear axle will identify a frame as having come from a WC-55 because those holes were used to secure the gun mounting plate angle irons to the chassis.
If your frame lacks the longer side rails (or front horns) for mounting a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-56, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card with a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-56. If the body number on your matching frame number build card is "66", then your frame came from a WC-51 weapon carrier. You did not ask about a WC-58, but its different body code of "29" would identify it such. Hope this helps."
"If your frame has the longer side rails (or front horns) used to mount a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-57, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card showing a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-57. If the build card serial number matches your frame serial number but the build card body number is "90", then your winch frame came from a WC-52 weapon carrier or perhaps a winch-equipped WC-55 gun motor carriage that had been rebuild into a command car (for which I don't have a separate body number). But 4 or 5 extra holes in the frame side rails above the rear axle will identify a frame as having come from a WC-55 because those holes were used to secure the gun mounting plate angle irons to the chassis.
If your frame lacks the longer side rails (or front horns) for mounting a winch, then your frame tells you your command car should be a WC-56, and if the serial number on that frame matches the serial number on the build card with a "19" body, that match confirms your CC was a WC-56. If the body number on your matching frame number build card is "66", then your frame came from a WC-51 weapon carrier. You did not ask about a WC-58, but its different body code of "29" would identify it such. Hope this helps."
Happy Jeep Trails,
Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C
Fred Coldwell
1944 CJ2-09 - X33
1945 CJ2-26 - X50
1944 Dodge T233 CC
1945 Dodge T233 Utility
MVPA #283C
- W. Winget
- LTC, U.S. Army
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Re: 56/57 build card
About the frame extensions and a "Mod"
Very doubtful the Army would modified the non-winch vehicles, even during rebuild, here's why:
A notional 'Winch conversion kit' would have meant the following (and I may miss something, it's been 30 years on mine)
- Frame Extensions, L/R
-Grade 8 bolts (at least I used those) About a dozen extra, some holes will have to be drilled to match each piece)
-Winch model bumpererttes (L/R sides)
-Winch front hooks (Non winch do not cover a third bolt head sticking up on the front of the bumper like the winch hooks models do)
-Bumperette to frame plates Upper and Lower, L/R
-Front Grill (shorter type than non-winch)
-Trimming metal off the cowling bottom for clearance angle of cowling to fit, appox 45 degree cutback on both sides of 6 inches or so.
- MU-2 Winch (the easy part)
- Winch to PTO Shaft
- PTO U-Joints (both ends are strange and mine are different, likely welded in replacements maybe one year I'll fix that.. .)
- PTO assembly (gasket and all parts up to the handle)
- Leather cover for floor board (Cut a slit, drill holes for bolts)
- PTO Handle lock hinge plate (keeps handle from vibrating into gear while driving and tearing up things )
- Last: Dash operating instruction plate for Winch
There is SO much work to do (correctly) in installing the winch that the Army would have said "Fugedabodit" and left it to depot level to possibly overhaul and re-issue a vehicle (which was not by happenstance, rather by TOE (Table of Organizational Equipment) for the unit drawing out the winch equipped vehicle in the 1st place)
Looking at the front cowling bottom should be a fairly quick giveaway, winch models were factory finished by stamping metal at the edge VS a flat cut back (saw), and welding the extensions on isn't necessarily a good strength idea for the metal, the bolts are the best way to do it.
For what it's worth.
V/R W. Winget
PS: I love my winch look, no regrets, but it was a PITA mod
Very doubtful the Army would modified the non-winch vehicles, even during rebuild, here's why:
A notional 'Winch conversion kit' would have meant the following (and I may miss something, it's been 30 years on mine)
- Frame Extensions, L/R
-Grade 8 bolts (at least I used those) About a dozen extra, some holes will have to be drilled to match each piece)
-Winch model bumpererttes (L/R sides)
-Winch front hooks (Non winch do not cover a third bolt head sticking up on the front of the bumper like the winch hooks models do)
-Bumperette to frame plates Upper and Lower, L/R
-Front Grill (shorter type than non-winch)
-Trimming metal off the cowling bottom for clearance angle of cowling to fit, appox 45 degree cutback on both sides of 6 inches or so.
- MU-2 Winch (the easy part)
- Winch to PTO Shaft
- PTO U-Joints (both ends are strange and mine are different, likely welded in replacements maybe one year I'll fix that.. .)
- PTO assembly (gasket and all parts up to the handle)
- Leather cover for floor board (Cut a slit, drill holes for bolts)
- PTO Handle lock hinge plate (keeps handle from vibrating into gear while driving and tearing up things )
- Last: Dash operating instruction plate for Winch
There is SO much work to do (correctly) in installing the winch that the Army would have said "Fugedabodit" and left it to depot level to possibly overhaul and re-issue a vehicle (which was not by happenstance, rather by TOE (Table of Organizational Equipment) for the unit drawing out the winch equipped vehicle in the 1st place)
Looking at the front cowling bottom should be a fairly quick giveaway, winch models were factory finished by stamping metal at the edge VS a flat cut back (saw), and welding the extensions on isn't necessarily a good strength idea for the metal, the bolts are the best way to do it.
For what it's worth.
V/R W. Winget
PS: I love my winch look, no regrets, but it was a PITA mod
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts
- dpcd67
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Re: 56/57 build card
Does your computer have a period on it? Mine does. That might make your sentences easier to read. Might not.....
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch
Armor Branch
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Re: 56/57 build card
In the UK there is one in every village
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Re: 56/57 build card
Hello.
Please tell me if the beginning of the frame number is 3 or 8. About the number starting with 316 I can't find anything.
Greetings TB.
Please tell me if the beginning of the frame number is 3 or 8. About the number starting with 316 I can't find anything.
Greetings TB.
- W. Winget
- LTC, U.S. Army
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Re: 56/57 build card
Frame serial starts with an 8.
W Winget
W Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts
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Re: 56/57 build card
The question of Dodge non-winch versus winch frames came up at the last Red Ball show in Gilbert, PA a few weeks ago in a discussion I was having with another Dodge owner. I've never seen anything official as to why Dodge did not just do a standardized frame for all 3/4-ton vehicles and then for the ones that were supposed to have winches do a bolt-on frame extension. Why go through all the hassle of having different length frames just for the sake of having a winch or not? It sure would have seemed to simplify and standardize wartime production to have one frame length.
The person I was talking to said that bolt-on winches were inherently weaker than ones mounted on the longer frames. I never thought of that..
DodgeMan
The person I was talking to said that bolt-on winches were inherently weaker than ones mounted on the longer frames. I never thought of that..
DodgeMan
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Re: 56/57 build card
Thank you W. Winget for his reply.
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