Willard Battery Cover

1941 - 1945, Willys MB & Ford GPW jeeps, NO EBAY, Craigslist or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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Mike Wright
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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Mike Wright » Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:06 am

Rustman wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:21 pm
 

Additionally it has come to our attention that although the manual calls for an SW-2-119 (NINE) battery that in Michael Wright's GPW Restoration book the battery compartment photograph clearly shows an SW-2-116 (SIX) battery. By every available resource the batteries are identical externally except for that number. We have both versions for sale. Please message me if you haven't already gotten a PM or email.


Thank you,Matthew Picciotto & the team at Mifflinburg

IMG_3458.jpeg

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IMG_3459.jpeg
Hi Matt
GREAT work and thank you for what you all are doing!
Well it looks like you found a mistake in the book 😖.
As David Doyle told me “There WILL be a few “. I’ll do some more research, however, it appears that you found one.
As a side note I should be on Robert’s list 😊.
Keep up the Great work and I’ll see you at the next MVPA convention!
Mike
Mike Wright
SEEKING MOTOR # GPW 2636
MVPA# 4341
GPW 2636, DOD 28 FEB 42, Reg# 2055811 (est)
GPW 104331 DOD 31 MAR 43, Reg# 20369321 (est)
MB-101008 DOD 27 NOV 41, Reg# W-2032462 (Original)
MB 438075, DOD 1 MAY 45, Reg# 20704591 (Original)
Converto ABN Dump 0886168
M2-HB gun trailer


hatchetdan
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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by hatchetdan » Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:43 am

So what number is correct for a gpw?

Rustman
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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:03 am

hatchetdan wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:43 am
So what number is correct for a gpw?
The short answer is yes. The long answer to fall in my next comment.

Matt
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:31 am

Which battery? The SW-2-116 or the SW-2-119??

Well let's break it down to what we do know. Both are wood insulated BCI Group 2 batteries. That means both are THE SAME SIZE. One is rated 116 ampere hours, the other would notionally be 119 ampere hours.The Dodge TM specifies the 116, TM9-803 for the Jeeps specifies a 119. Willard commercial literature from 1943 mentions the 116 as the battery for Jeeps. 1940 Willard literature describes the 119 battery for a Dodge military contract. Yet some later wartime photos in Mike Haines "Recon Collection" show a 116 battery. Farrell Fox has a 119 case and I have a 116 case. So we know both do/did exist. We have wartime photographs of 116 batteries in Jeeps and Dodges. We have commercial and military literature referring to both ampere ratings batteries.
TM-9-803.jpg
TM9-1808A.jpg
Notice the two batteries are the EXACT SAME SPEC in the TMs. I don't know why a 119 battery is rated in the TM as 116 amperes instead of the higher amount. But that's what it says "in the book"
March 1940 Willard Sales Literature.png
Here we have March 1940 literature from Willard advertising that they have a military contract for 119 batteries.
1943 Willard Catalog 3.jpg
1943 Willard Catalog 2.jpg
Yet here in 1943 for the same types of vehicles the 116 battery is what they advertise.
IMG_8309.JPG
Beside's the photograph in Michael Wright's book the only other CLEAR photograph I've seen is this one from Mike Haines that was from a series of Dodge factory large format negatives.

Literally the only difference I have been able to ascertain between the two batteries is that number. If you know more, I'd love to hear it.

Matt
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Savannasbob1 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:33 am

These look great, worth the wait just wondering how are you notifying us on the list? need to know what to look for email or ???

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:08 pm

Savannasbob1 wrote:
Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:33 am
These look great, worth the wait just wondering how are you notifying us on the list? need to know what to look for email or ???
I don't have you on the list I got from Bobby. Everyone that was on the list he gave me I've emailed or PM'd. If you had placed an order/request with him that went unfilled send me an email or PM. If you've been waiting on one of these since I took over the project then we haven't been keeping a list and as soon as they are ready to sell I'll be posting here.

EDIT! I just went back through this thread looking for your username and I see it pop up a couple of times. PLEASE email me at Admin@g518parts.com

Matt
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Michael O. » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:57 am

Email sent sir.
Michael O’Connell

Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.

MVPA 13861

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:49 am

The first ten cases have shipped out and I believe 9 have reached their destinations. Though we've only heard confirmation from 3 of the buyers. The next ten or so should ship this weekend. I have 3 on the shelf right now. So those I've been in contact with but haven't gotten an invoice yet will be getting one in the next couple of days so that we can ship to you on Friday or Saturday.

I am continuing to attempt to improve the process and the product. So by all means we welcome feedback on the cases shipped.

Thanks
Matthew
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by ajlang » Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:16 am

Rustman wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:49 am
The first ten cases have shipped out and I believe 9 have reached their destinations. Though we've only heard confirmation from 3 of the buyers. The next ten or so should ship this weekend. I have 3 on the shelf right now. So those I've been in contact with but haven't gotten an invoice yet will be getting one in the next couple of days so that we can ship to you on Friday or Saturday.

I am continuing to attempt to improve the process and the product. So by all means we welcome feedback on the cases shipped.

Thanks
Matthew
I got both of mine in Matt. Beautiful work and well packaged.
Thanks much,
Andy
Last edited by ajlang on Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Tuareg » Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:20 am

Very interesting
Thanks
Willys MB
DOD 27 july 1942
TUB 63439
CHASIS MB161718
Estimated Hood number very high 20214xxx to very low 20215xxx
Probably 1st Armored Division, Operation Torch, still doing research.
Probably Diplomatic number plate by French Government in Morocco. Still doing research. Any information is welcome!

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:31 pm

Andy great to hear! I know you've been waiting a while to see them.

Matthew
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:12 am

Well we have shipped out ten cases and had our first bad review. adam8888d We have exchanged several emails and it is clear he is not satisfied, nor will be satisfied. I've asked him to put his opinions here and he has so far not. So I'm doing it. These are our email exchanges along with some pictures he took of the case situation. Consider this Adam's review. If what you see and read bothers you I will cancel/refund your order. (In the below pictures Adam had elected to paint the case himself, that is his fine work. He also used silver paint on the cell connectors with the intention of it tarnishing. A nice touch that will pay dividends as it ages)
unnamed-12.jpg
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Hi Mathew. Not good news really. It's more of a round peg in a square hole.

 The optima 6v red top battery came today.  lugs on the bottom have been removed 

Because the battery does not touch the bottom of the case. The weight of battery sends the case out of shape. 

For the battery case to be square . it would have to have the sides shaved back but there is not enough material to shave
as i see some has all ready been shaved.

If there was enough for the battery case to be shaved. The issue of the terminal holes will then  be in the wrong place.

although the margins are very small. The photos speak for the selves.

Rather than making the battery fit the case. It maybe a good idea to look at making the case fit the battery. 
The base of the battery could do with been approx 20mm thicker.

The lid would be better is it had a recess around the terminal hole to allow the battery poke through the holes further.

A hole could do with Drilling in the base of the case to allow for water to disperse  (rain, pressure washing etc )

I could make the battery fit the case but this would be a trial or error task as i would have to shave the battery.

I also made a video of the battery and case been erected but was unable to finish due to the battery not fitting the case. 

I guess you are on the right track but more work is needed. 

3d printer? 

Would you like me to return the case?
Regards Adam
Adam,

Thank you for your email. Was there a letter from us included with your case? In that letter several of your concerns were specifically addressed. There also should have been a block of styrofoam 20-25mm thick provided for raising up the Optima battery. 

I'm sorry you were under the impression this was a finished product that would not take any fiddling. Robert Lentz's first and second generation cases required even more work than these. And although we have simplified the process, we are not done. Though the battery case size is constrained by the original battery size. The material is easily machinable for modifications by the final user.  While some have advocated for drain holes, others have petitioned against them. So we did not include those, they are easily added with a hand held drill by yourself. The trimming of a recess on the underside of the lid around the terminals is also something that can be undertaken by the end user using a utility knife or Forster bit if they find it necessary. We cast our lids about half the thickness of the previous process, this thickness, while possibly able to be made thinner has proven generally to not be an issue. 

The case needs to have that styrofoam block or other material in place to keep the battery at the right height. You made need to shave one end of the block, or shim one end with some cardboard. Irregularities in the casting process result in an uneven floor thickness (incidentally this is one of the reasons we do not cast a thick bottom into the case). With the battery in place vertically it should not push out the case much. The holes in the lid can be opened up at the terminals better if needed, using a utility knife. Usually the battery hold down masks any slight misalignment and the case being pushed slightly out of square. In severe situations you can heat the case to around 100 degrees celsius and can clamp it/pull it straight until it cools. 

I would suggest you try any of the above suggestions as well as post your experience in the thread here  https://forums.g503.com/ I am sorry that the product was not as expected. I don't want others to be mislead and welcome your feedback being public. While you may return the battery for a refund, I cannot refund the shipping nor pay for the return shipping. 

Again I am sorry this was your experience. 

Matthew Picciotto
There was no paper work or instructions with the case. The case is a project in itself that I see that most who purchase would not have the ability to achieve an end product without ending up with an unusable product. As I am well known on pretty much all the forums. I would not be able to give a positive review. Although I have made a video . Regards Adam
Sent from my iPhone
Adam. 

Below is the text of the letter that I personally included in every single case we have shipped out. I feel like you are threatening me and insulting my work. As well as disparaging the skills of others in the G503 community. I am not scared of legitimate criticism and have already invited you to post your review on the G503 thread where these are being discussed and sold. I made no request that it be a positive one. If you are not satisfied with my product you are welcome to ship it back for a refund and make your own. 

Matthew Picciotto
" Thank you for purchasing one of our Willard Battery Cases. We know this has been a long process. We appreciate your patience as we took over the business from Robert Lentz. We originally were going to go straight into production. But instead we ended up completely redesigning the entire process. But to be clear, it was Robert’s groundbreaking work that got us to this point. Until him nobody had made replica battery cases for WW2 vehicles. A big thank you to Bryan Patton who did all the 3D design rendering so we could resin print casting masters for the lid. Also we are grateful to every one of you who has followed this project for many years and our part for the last seventeen months, that have provided insights, suggestions and factory evidence on these batteries. Now a few installation notes:

• You will need to remove the mounting lugs from the bottom of the Optima battery. This is easily done with a handheld saw such as a Keyhole, Coping or hacksaw. 

• The battery will only fit in diagonally. The styrofoam block at the bottom should get you close to the right height. You may need to shave it down or shim it. The bottoms of the cases are not always 100% smooth and level. It is a snug fit and in some situations may push the case slightly out of square. The lid usually conceals this and combined with the hold down does not require any further work.

• The lid is held down by the battery hold down and therefore there is not a need for doing any gluing, sealing or other work when installing into a G503 application. The battery hold down completely hides the seam. Some flat black paint on the top of your Optima battery will obscure any red showing through around the terminal openings. If you are using the case in a different application and need to make changes the urethane resin is easily machinable with wood or metal working tools and can be glued with epoxy or CA glue. 

• These are cast from 2-part urethane resin. Once cured they are inert and generally do not warp, twist or shrink. If for some reason your case gets out of shape you can warm it with a heat gun or hair dryer to about 200 F° or 95 C° and push it back to shape (we suggest wearing gloves).

• We hand make these and strive for consistency, but at the end of the day the factory is our home. The casting is done in the basement, the painting in the dining room. There will be some variations, you may need to trim around the terminal openings etc. 

We hope you enjoy your Willard Battery Case and if there are any issues please reach out. We are constantly striving to improve the product. But we know that waiting 2 years can be pretty tiresome and figured we better get something out before you all gave up on us.  

Thank you
Mifflinburg Body & Gear Ltd. Co.
i am not threatening or insulting your work . In my opinion The  notice should have been sent in an email before sale. not after a purchase.  I think that what you are doing is a great idea. what i don’t accept is that you are selling and charging retail money for a product that is not as yet  fit for purpose. In the UK. It would be classed as fraud by deception and you would most likely be sued.  I would like to see you get it right and put it on the market as i can see great potential in the case. Even better if you can come up with a 12v version?   The Video that has i have started could be read two way on how it is presented. You will find that most people on the g503 have now moved to facebook. Never assume anything and its always best to be up front. Its hard enough for anyone to get a good reputation and easy as hell to get a bad one to recover from. I myself have no interest in giving someone a bad reputation that is trying to do good. And that is you. Trying to do GOOD.

RegardsAdam
I may be out of line posting this. But I've asked for feedback. And Adam's was the first really critical one. I really want it shared so everyone knows exactly what they are getting. Most people have been following this project closely and have handled pre-production cases at the MVPA convention. But going forward I see that some have not and were expecting a polished product.

Thank you
Matthew Picciotto
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

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17thAirborne
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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by 17thAirborne » Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:42 am

Matthew, thanks for being transparent in an age where everyone claims transparacy but does not deliver. Its good for us to read everything to make an assessment for ourselves. I have two of the original Robb cases and find even at that stage of development they were a definate step up. I followed the instructions and was pleased with the result. I am betting that your case is an improvement.

Keep up the good effort and do not get discouraged by one. There will be more, but I think the community is benefitting from your efforts. Its nice that someone is willing to take risks to get a new/better product to the end user. I wish people would not throw the lawsuit comment around. No one wants or needs lawyers involved in our community. We already have enough shyte to deal with from the government.

Thanks again for taking this on for US!
Last edited by 17thAirborne on Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Rustman » Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:08 am

ugg transperancy is exhausting.

So Adam emailed me again and apologized for his tone. He is the sort of person who is very meticulous in his work and very passionate. This can result in the sort of person who speaks/emails rather rashly. I have a close friend who is like this, now that I recognize it I can calm down. I should have waited before making the post yesterday.

He also sent me some AMAZING photos of the case installed. Here's one. I'm waiting on details from him on what he did to make it work.
unnamed-16.jpg
Matt
1970 Kaiser Jeep DJ-5A Left Hand Drive
1945 Corps of Engineers Welder & Trailer
1943 G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Steel Body
194* G518 "Ben Hur" Trailer Composite Body
http://g518parts.com/

Hal Joyce
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Re: Willard Battery Cover

Post by Hal Joyce » Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:43 am

I don’t post much here, but I do read alot of ya’lls post daily, and just had to add my two cents to yesterdays and todays posts. Good feed back from both sides! Great communication from Rustman through this whole process, you are to be commended. Very much looking forward to receiving my two battery boxes, and really kind of appreciate being able to do a little work on my own to get a finished product. I built my own splash shield, and battery tray and the self satisfaction it gives me to know these parts are indiscernible to the originals gives me a feeling of pride to have my own handiwork as a part of bringing these pieces of history back to a recognizable completion. Sorry to hear, so many have felt the need to abandon this great site of information, that Ron has so generously provided for our community. Funny, but I abandoned facebook, because I felt I could put no trust in them. After seeing how Twitter has allowed the FBI to censor our freedom of speech, ( and you know the FBI are doing the same things on Facebook), you’d think our freedom loving military supporting community would turn away from Facebook and come back to Ron’s valuable resource here at the G! Sorry to get a little off topic, and thanks to Rustman and all here who are bringing knowledge and resources to share on our historical artifacts!
MB SG 110169 body 13869 Engine 590935
GPW 108703 s/n all matching 3/31/43
Willy’s MBT 11539 11/42 16748w s/n 0213230
1947 CJ2A s/n 87325 engine MC62311 GPW head
:D


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