Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by d42jeep » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:15 am

Here is a picture of some War Finish markings on Plomb 1/4” drive sockets.
-Don
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8A45A82F-F25F-4919-8764-89494A7221B8.jpeg
Plomb civilian 1/4” drive sockets marked War Finish
8A45A82F-F25F-4919-8764-89494A7221B8.jpeg (99.83 KiB) Viewed 139062 times
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Gordon_M » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:27 am

I've not seen any WAR FINISH markings over here in the UK ( tell me I'm wrong everyone ... )

I always assumed that marking was for wartime production for essential civilian use within the continental US?
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Wingnutt » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:06 am

Gordon_M wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:27 am
I always assumed that marking was for wartime production for essential civilian use...
That is correct, as an apologia and caveat to them being not up to usual snuff due to WPB L-216 (polished only once, etc).
Gordon_M wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:27 am
...within the continental US?
Technically, I don't think there was anything that would've prevented someone from outside the US from buying them and having them shipped for civilian use somewhere else. Impractical, maybe, but Len has pre-war Blackhawk that a shop in his village bought.

Having said that, I found that strange and uncommon, and I would expect the same of Plomb WAR FINISH. Just pointing out that there was nothing binding it to US soil.
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Gordon_M » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:22 am

Wingnutt wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:06 am
Having said that, I found that strange and uncommon, and I would expect the same of Plomb WAR FINISH. Just pointing out that there was nothing binding it to US soil.
Understood. It also applies in the other direction for Plomb product like the Whitworth and BA range of spanners / wrenches that were presumably made only for the UK & Commonwealth forces. They are very common on the UK version of the auction site but presumably almost completely absent in the USA, unless someone took a toolbox back after serving here with some Whitworth spanners in.

They always seem to be advertised as "Rolls Royce / Spitfire / Merlin spanners" to try and drive-up a bit of auction interest, but I don't know if Merlins were built with Whitworth sizes - anyone know?

Answer here:

http://www.enginehistory.org/Collection ... ners.shtml
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Len Jones » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:28 am

Greg not sure which Blackhawk set you are thinking on ?

But this may be the one - ' Blackhawk Chief ' in 1/2 inch drive which includes some Whitworth sized sockets. I did have a look at some of the catalogues on Todd's site before it vanished, but was unable to find an exact match. So I assumed this particular set was for export, and therefore might not be listed in the USA catalogues.

So back to another 1/4 inch drive set, this Blackhawk set was also purchased here in the U.K. is pre war, but appears in a catalogue, and is shown on ' AA '. I believe these particular sets were only made between 1929 - 1939, and then replaced by the ' nuggies ' set contained in a Bakelite type case. The spinner appears to be virtually unused, the sockets have only minor wear / grime, and the exterior of the case is quite worn from storage.

These last two Williams sets were also purchased here in the U.K. and are at the ' work in progress ' stage !

The 1291P is a 1/4 inch drive set, according to ' AA ' was manufactured between 1942 - 1945, appears in period catalogues. Not shown are seven of the ten midget wrenches - I have three more to find.

The M.310 is a 9/32 inch drive set, according to ' AA ' was manufactured between 1934 - 1940, also appears in period catalogues, but is missing just one M-609 6 point socket. Judging by the case it has had a hard life.
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Williams 1291P.JPG
Williams 1291P.JPG (115.13 KiB) Viewed 139041 times
Williams M-310.JPG
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by mudbox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:38 am

Here's the Walden set that resides in my GMTK.
The box has the early 5 knuckle hinge.

Image

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Image

-Jason

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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by d42jeep » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:35 am

That’s a nice set. Those dark finish ratchets aren’t easy to find.
-Don
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:24 am

Len,

Yes, that Blackhawk Chief set is what I was referring to. My only point (back on the Plomb WAR FINISH tools) was that people (i.e., civilians) in the UK were buying tools from the US.

I've been hoping to run into one of those Blackhawk Q.D. 11ND sets at my flea markets for a loooooong time, Len. Gorgeous set. And yes, clearly pre-war. I have two of its bigger cousins, a Q.D. 19CD and a Q.D. 32CD set, both in original decaled boxes. I would give my left nut for a Q.D. 11ND set. Congratulations on owning that.
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by d42jeep » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:38 am

Ever since I completed my keeper GMTK, I’ve been looking for a 6 point knurled 7/16” socket tor my Walden 1/4” drive set. Even though I had never seen one in person, I knew they had to be out there because Hartofoak had one in his impressive set. I recently spotted one in a 1/4” drive Walden 6 point set posted on the Garage Journal and worked out a trade so I could add that socket to my keeper set. Now maybe I can quit buying every Walden set I see. :mrgreen:
-Don
Attachments
24DDE3E9-9EB5-4CA8-B09A-E6E25EBA9ACF.jpeg
7/16” knurled socket
24DDE3E9-9EB5-4CA8-B09A-E6E25EBA9ACF.jpeg (121.12 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
04880BCC-B9C7-4E0E-9EE7-0F759A74FAC3.jpeg
7/16” 6 point socket
04880BCC-B9C7-4E0E-9EE7-0F759A74FAC3.jpeg (94.02 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
3C519CBC-52BA-4A51-85B4-0B39278D62F3.jpeg
Replaced the 12 point socket
3C519CBC-52BA-4A51-85B4-0B39278D62F3.jpeg (92.13 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
2E22CBEE-6020-44F2-862E-80D40CE0E9A5.jpeg
Set with side view of the sockets
2E22CBEE-6020-44F2-862E-80D40CE0E9A5.jpeg (91.82 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
B6ECE65F-C69D-4222-8979-7018C9E513D8.jpeg
Side view
B6ECE65F-C69D-4222-8979-7018C9E513D8.jpeg (107.1 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
48A057C5-C964-4EF0-B9B4-DC01986C0068.jpeg
Side view of sockets close
48A057C5-C964-4EF0-B9B4-DC01986C0068.jpeg (126.53 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
C777D6F6-D1FA-4924-91FB-5FE62D0CA863.jpeg
Back in the box
C777D6F6-D1FA-4924-91FB-5FE62D0CA863.jpeg (94.86 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
AF898BCE-85DA-449F-9871-9DC3BC9B5EAD.jpeg
FSN marked Walden box
AF898BCE-85DA-449F-9871-9DC3BC9B5EAD.jpeg (104.12 KiB) Viewed 138959 times
Last edited by d42jeep on Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by d42jeep » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:27 am

After receiving the partial set with the bent pin handle I picked up the rest of the pieces to mostly complete it. Here are the wartime green box sets as of yesterday.
-Don
Attachments
A8FCFE8D-8125-45DA-B95C-C561AF84D285.jpeg
Plomb wartime green box 1/4” drive sets
A8FCFE8D-8125-45DA-B95C-C561AF84D285.jpeg (119.41 KiB) Viewed 138958 times
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Hartofoak » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:08 am

So glad you eventually managed to track down that elusive 7/16" six point socket Don. That makes two in the world!!
Just loved your Walden set and its excellent photos Jason.
Len: Your Blackhawk "Chief" set reminds me of a Duro DI set I picked up here in the UK that also had Whitworth sockets in it.viewtopic.php?f=48&t=203290&p=1195207&h ... h#p1194847
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Len Jones » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:03 pm

Cliff

That is a nice Duro set, I had not viewed that thread before - earlier this year this set was on the auction site here in U.K. described as ' 1/2'' drive USA socket set in AF sizes ' which was BIN so I did - when it arrived it turned out to be standard whitworth ! So it nearly went in the bin :x

Sorry if I am wandering off topic. I assume this is another export set for the U.K. civilian market, perhaps pre WW2 ?
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5.JPG
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3.JPG
Remnants of the Duro decal
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2.JPG
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1.JPG
Made in U.S.A. SW = Standard Whitworth
1.JPG (123.06 KiB) Viewed 138927 times
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by d42jeep » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:13 am

That’s a very cool set, Len, and I believe it to be wartime. Duro/Indestro was selling the reversing and non reversing ratchets side by side in the catalog. It must have been destined for the U.K. as there probably wouldn’t have been much demand in the U.S. I imagine the position of the knurling on the sockets was to differentiate from the SAE versions.
-Don
Attachments
F822BE6C-A261-4DF4-9DDA-AE875BA5C32E.jpeg
Duro catalog page
F822BE6C-A261-4DF4-9DDA-AE875BA5C32E.jpeg (72.13 KiB) Viewed 138907 times
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Len Jones » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:33 am

Don

Many thanks, nice to know it might in fact be a WW2 set - good job I did not put it in the bin :)

I had not thought about the position of the knurling / banding as a means of identification between SW and AF. By shear coincidence these sockets arrived last week via the auction site here in U.K. and which clearly shows the difference you mention.
Attachments
P1270305.JPG
9/16 & 1/2 Whitworth - 13/16 & 7/8 AF
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Re: Wartime 1/4" drive socket sets

Post by Hartofoak » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:46 am

Not wishing to contaminate your 1/4" thread too much, but here are the SW D-I sockets I found in my Duro-Indestro box mentioned above. They have a plain steel finish and the higher, cross-hatched knurling on the sockets.
Duro - Indestro DI BSW sockets.jpg
Duro - Indestro DI BSW sockets.jpg (231.81 KiB) Viewed 138875 times
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