FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Manufacturers, configurations, Shovels, Axe, Wrenches, Oiler, F/E etc.
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mrbill
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by mrbill » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:50 am

mudbox wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:19 am
Ding ding ding.
Good guess. I would have expected to see Wright guessed as well.
I'm not really sure if MAC was making these or sourcing them from Cornwell or Wright. These 'neighbors' were all using the same design on wrenches at the time.

Marked only MAC and missing the Sabina O.

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1945 Ford GPW 268739 from the Dallas, TX plant.


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gpw_42
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by gpw_42 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:13 pm

mrbill wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:50 am
Marked only MAC and missing the Sabina O.
Image
-Jason

Be still my heart! Methinks you found a unicorn. :D

Bill
What puts this into (near?) unicorn status? Not arguing, looking to replace my ignorance with some new knowledge.

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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by mudbox » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Wartime MAC tools seem to be hard to pin down. They (MAC) claim you have contracts with the Gov. for tool production but that isn’t really corroborated in the documentation.
This is the first MAC wrench that I know of other than the drain plug wrench that has an FSN stamped into it. And, the fact that this wrench is chrome plated speaks to early wartime production. So... a bit of a unicorn.

There’s some discussion HERE, but MAC isn’t talked about much here.

-Jason

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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by gpw_42 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:16 am

41-W-624-15 Ignition Wrench, 17mm x 20mm, pictures lifted from an eBay auction.
Overview.jpg
FSN.jpg
17mm.jpg
20mm.jpg

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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by Len Jones » Mon May 03, 2021 8:28 am

Another Universal Metal Products automobile wrench with a FSN has just joined it's larger 15 inch sibling - Previously posted.

While the 15 inch 41-W-450 automobile wrench is listed in several publications - I cannot find any reference to an 11 inch 41-W-448 marked automobile wrench anywhere in the limited publications I have viewed so far :?:

My first thoughts were that it might make a nice addition to a G503 tool set - However it does not pass the all important ' hub nut test ' unless helped with a suitably large hammer :lol:

My comparison with a G503 correct Billings & Spencer 41-W-449 auto wrench reveals why - There is a three ounce difference.

Shown here is another Universal 11 inch 41-W-448 version belonging to a fellow UK collector which has stamped markings instead of forged markings, and requires the same heavy handed assistance to pass the hub nut test - Thanks Andy for sharing.

Thoughts anyone ?
Len
Attachments
1.JPG
Universal Metal Products
2.JPG
Reverse side
3.JPG
41-W-488 & 41-W-450
4 - SNL N-19.JPG
SNL N-19
5 - RA PD 50233.JPG
RA PD 50233
6 - 1 lb 12.8 ozs.JPG
Universal Metal Prods 41-W-448 1 lb 12.8 ozs
7 - 1lb 9.6 ozs.JPG
Billings & Spencer 41-W-449 1 lb 9.6 ozs
8.png
Another UK collectors example
9 - #41-W-448.png
Stamped #41-W-448
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by gpw_42 » Mon May 03, 2021 2:04 pm

Len Jones wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:28 am
Another Universal Metal Products automobile wrench with a FSN has just joined it's larger 15 inch sibling - Previously posted.

While the 15 inch 41-W-450 automobile wrench is listed in several publications - I cannot find any reference to an 11 inch 41-W-448 marked automobile wrench anywhere in the limited publications I have viewed so far :?:
Len, thanks for the discussion and pictures.

There was quite a long discussion in 2008 and 2012-13 about 41-W-448 vs. 41-W-449, see: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=123491 which included discussion of which documents showed which details for both the -448 and -449. However, there's no post there comparing weights of the two tools, or how they do/don't compare on the hub nut test. I'll bump that thread shortly, to cross-link them.

I've added another half-page of FSN marked tools to the spread sheet since I posted last year. Time to post again.

Thanks to all who continue to contribute to this thread!

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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by gpw_42 » Mon May 03, 2021 3:22 pm

41-W-624 wrench. Picture lifted from Facebook post by Aaron Holdaway https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 939&type=3
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41-W-624 Wrench.jpg

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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production

Post by Wingnutt » Tue May 04, 2021 5:16 am

Len Jones wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:28 am
Thoughts anyone ?
Hi Len,

Couple thoughts.

Re: the FSN. As Steve alluded to, it is confusingly recorded as 41-W-448 and 41-W-449 in various documents (and in one case within the same document!) throughout the war. You can consult the thread Steve linked for details. I think examples with either number forged or stamped in have a probability of being correct wartime jeep motor pool wrenches, or at least, hard to disprove.

Re: the hub wrench test. I think it is often overstated and misunderstood. Yes, the 11-inch auto wrench was used as the handle, by design, so a wrench should fit. But I don't think the need for a mallet to get an 11-inch auto wrench in or out of the hub nut wrench means the auto wrench is not correct. I have a mfgr- and period-correct B&S 11-inch auto wrench that needs force to fit a mfgr- and period-correct A-692 hub wrench. And yet it fits other examples of hub wrenches. How is this possible? Manufacturing deviations. For the longest time Willys-Overland made this tool in their in-house shop. First for the MA, then the MB. This was not a complex, precision tool. Most found examples are deformed in one way or another, in the hex opening as well as the slot openings for the 11-inch auto wrench handle. It did not even have a federal specification. It was a special tool that was only pertinent to WO MA and MB. It was made of pressed steel. The slots for the 11-inch auto wrench handle are then milled and finished. Much later in the war it was outsourced to American Metal Products. I am sure WO just sent them their own drawing and it continued to be made just as crudely. Even the modern reproductions are crude. And, let's not forget that the auto wrenches were black japanned, which could easily be baked on too thick.

Just because an 11-inch auto wrench fits the hub wrench doesn't mean it's correct (it also has to be period correct and provided by B&S or Fairmount - for a factory kit, and other verified mfgrs for a motorpool kit) and I think the opposite is also true. If a correct B&S or Fairmount 11-inch auto wrench has trouble fitting, it's just as likely the hub wrench at fault. And I have the same opinion about 41-W-448 and -449 motor pool wrenches not fitting easily.
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