GMTK MVMTS----TOOLKIT---UPDATE

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GMTK MVMTS----TOOLKIT---UPDATE

Post by pjones » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:26 pm

Guys,
After 4 years, I think (hope!) I have completed my MVMTS. Make no mistakes, 4 years of active pursuit of correct pieces at the cheapest price I could find them, by no means an easy task and very time consuming. I have tried to locate what I believe to be the most correct pieces for this "keeper set". In other words, I want this toolkbox to look exactly as it would have 70 plus years ago. You might argue the toolbox does; its has rust spots, holes in the bottom and spots of paint on it. I could have gone with one of my restored boxes but this one just felt right. Obviously, determining what the most correct brands are can be and has been very challenging. This has been discussed on other post but in general any tool made by a company producing tools during ww2, found in original NOS toolkits (yes, even flamethrower kits which by the way had a Williams adjustable in it) or in repacks, and those that match the appearance of the RA PD pictures are legitimate options. I want this set to be as correct as possible so after enjoying the pictures I really want the tool forum to point out all errors I have made.

For those considering putting together a set, here is my guide on how to put together a MVMTS or GMTK:

Step1. Choose your bible:
After deciding whether to construct a MVMTS or a GMTK choose which source you want to model your toolbox after. The source for my MVMTS is the Dec 1943 TM10-475. Other options include the OCT 1942 SNL-19 (MVMTS), the OCT 1944 ORD 6 SNL G-27, the ORD 6 SNL G-27 dated 1 July 1944 or the Dec 45 version. A very nice and invaluable guide was created by Wingnutt to use as a pocket guide for some of these though at that time it did not include all the above sources (though I would bet it does by now).


Step 2. Choose a MVMTS/GMTK toolbox.
There are several brands and even unmarked boxes from which to choose but they must meet specs. Some believe the unmarked boxes to be early war. The MVMTS/GMTK toolbox dimensions are 21" x 8 1/2" x 7 1/2". Generally accepted makers of the MVMTS toolboxes include Hamilton Metal Products, Union, EJ McALEER & Co., and GEM among others. Pictures of the different toolboxes can be found on other threads. Hartofoak's thread on GMTK toolboxes includes many toolbox pictures and is a great resource viewtopic.php?f=48&t=198454&hilit=GMTK+ ... s#p1157325.
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Step 2. Locate correct tools for the toolbox.
There are multiple places where one can locate tools produced during ww2. However, before you can locate correct tools you have to know what type tools are correct ww2 era i.e. correct finishes, correct brands, correct sizes, correct brand stampings for ww2 era etc... Not knowing this information leads to the purchase of many unnecessary tools and wasted dollars (Been there...Done that). Sources to learn this information include this forum. There are some really great guys on this forum who will help you in any way possible, just ask. Other sources include sites such as Alloy Artifacts, not perfect but helpful. Catalogs form the 1940's can be helpful as well. Pictures of tools from ww2 can be helpful as well though they are often not clear enough to make definitive decisions. I have found most of my tools from flea markets but this takes a lot of time, patience, and gas money. Having said that, it is very enjoyable and nothing beats the feeling of finding a nice 723 in the bottom of an old toolbox or for that matter any ww2 tool. Other places to locate tools include the guys on the tool forum. Many of us have found duplicate tools and are more than willing to share those finds. And as much as I hate to admit it....ebay. Some of my best finds have been from sellers on ebay who had no idea what they had but it takes a lot of time on the computer searching through lots of tools. Most of the time if the seller knows what they have you will not get a deal. There are also other tool forums that sell tools but again most know what they have. All things being even I favor getting tools from the guys on the forum. They know what they are doing and when sold here there is accountability for what you sell.
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There is no way I can go through all the possible choices for each individual tool in the MVMTS/GMTK but I would like to hit the high points. I have tried at various times as have others to break the tool kit down into individual pieces and come to a consensus on what brands would be considered correct. This is a complicated endeavor for multiple reasons and in reality probably impossible. We have very little data to base correct decisions on though we do have a few "pictures in time" provided by the sources I listed above. In addition a few toolboxes with their original stenciling (SillysMB/Hartofoak) have been presented as well and a GMTS with many original tools was pictured on this forum.

Now for some individual components of the MVMTS:

The 1/4" set:
I definitely had the most fun putting this one together. I decided to use a Walden set. Walden tools were manufactured for a long time. They were manufactured from before 1910 until after 1990. Because of this estimating the manufacturing date can be very difficult. Certainly Walden was around during ww2 and Walden boxes have been found with the FSN number stenciled on the lid (41-W-2615). In general, cadmium or black oxide appearance stamped "Walden-Worcester" and "Made in U.S.A." with an inverted-V date code are the style I went with. Of note, Waldens boxes did not always have the rounded corners we are all familiar with even into the 30's. Other boxes that appear similar to the RA PD picture include Duro Chrome, Indestro, and New Britian among others.
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Some useful Walden socket numbers to remember include:
3106 3/16" 6 point
3107 7/32" 6 pt
3108 1/4" 6 pt
3109 9/32" 6 pt
3159 1/4" 8 pt
3114 7/16" 12 pt
3112 3/8" 12 pt
3161 3/8" 8 pt
3111 11/32" 12 pt
3160 5/16" 8 pt
3110 5/16" 6 pt

The 1/2" set:
This set was also one of my favorite to put together. I believe D I marked sockets are the ideal socket for the MVMTS. It is believed that D I marked sockets were manufactured by Duro for the military. These sockets closely resemble the Chromium Vanadium or Indestro Super sockets but are labeled with D - I instead of the Duro Indestro brand. The 1/2-drive D-I sockets usually have a 12xx part number further suggesting a Duro Indestro connection. D-I sockets are unfinished steel or have a thin cadmium plating and both types can be seen in my kit. I have seen polished chrome D I sockets on ebay though Alloy Artifact doesn't acknowledge these...yet. See picture below.
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The open end wrench set:
This set includes all the sizes commonly found in the jeep toolkit plus the 33C/1033C. Therefore it is really easy to add a 33C to any of the brands accepted for the jeep kit and place it in your MVMTS/GMTK. However, based on the numbers of wrenches found in repacks and the percentages of each I believe that Vlchek, Duro, Buffalo Barcalo and Fairmount are the best choices. Given that, I agree with trying to reserve Fairmounts and BBs for the jeep toolkit and not putting them in the MVMTS/GMTK though I do have 33C of both makes. I went with a set of Williams alloy Superrenches (Thanks Luca) but I really like the Duro and Vlchek sets. Note the Barcalo box below (Thanks Workdawg).
Interestingly, In the United States Barcalo is much better known for making recliners than tools. The chairs are currently produced in Morristown, Tennessee (about an hour west of where I live) after the company filed for bankruptcy and closed its business in Rocky Mount, North Carolina and Martinsville, Virginia. These recliners have even made it to film/TV including Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five (1969), John Updike's Rabbit is Rich (1981), and even Joey and Chandler from the sitcom Friends owned a set of Barcalounger recliners. In another sitcom Frasier, Frasier brings a new girlfriend home. They are about to have sex on the chair belonging to Frasier's father and he says "I won't be out-performed by a Barcalounger" before moving to the couch. Totally useless info unles you are a Barcalo fan!
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The DBE wrenches:
I went with Buffalo Barcalo with the exception of the one vlchek. Again, I believe any of the brands generally accepted for the jeep toolkit could be used here including BB, Vlchek, Duro (circle DC), Fairmount among others. I have seen many vlchek and Duro DBE's.
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The 41-H-1501 handle:
I have seen these unmarked, Mossberg, Chrome Vanadium and even Armstrong. While difficult to use or even know how to use I went with a Mossberg handle (Thanks Hugh). I did include pictures of the Armstrong, well, just because it looks so cool.
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The 8" pliers 41-P-1652:
I believe any of the brands accepted for the jeep toolkit pliers can be used here. I went with BB but I have seen almost every brand in an 8" variety.
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The screwdriver 41-S-1640:
Bridgeport was in business well before ww2 and even ww1. This Bridgeport screwdriver is a dead ringer for RA PD picture and isn't terribly difficult to find. The one pictured is NOS and still in cosmoline (thanks Silly'sMB).
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Frame 41-F-3390:
Union Hardware Company makes a saw that looks identical to the RA PD picture and that is the reason I went with that brand for my toolbox.
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Wrench 41-W-1660:
The Walworth Company makes a wrench that matches the RA PD picture exactly though many have gone with a Rigid wrench for this piece.
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Knife 41-K-546:
Smith & Hemenway made tools marked Red Devil. They made a knife that matches the RA PD very closely.
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Knife 41-K-370:
There are several brands of knives stamped TL-29. Some are wood handled and others seem to be more of an acrylic. I have no expertise on these knives but I believe the wood handles are more ww2 correct. I have found these in Camillus, Ulster and Utica. Wingnutt has a very interesting post on this viewtopic.php?f=48&t=212773&hilit=camillus#p1246019 Whether or not those marked TL-29 are correct for all GMTKs or just the Signal Corp is a different story.
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38-B-3345 Brush:
I went with a brush vulcanized in rubber for my MVMTS (Thanks Hartofoak). As you are probably aware, vulcanization is a chemical process that results in a more durable product. As far as brushes go this one sure has the right look and feel.
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Other pictures:
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For the GMTK/MVMTS guru's out there you will have undoubtedly realized there is one or two pieces missing from my kit. Thanks in advance for letting me know of any errors I have made. As you can see many of the tools were acquired from other gee members.
Thanks,
phil
Last edited by pjones on Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by JAB » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:08 pm

Wow! That is FANTASTIC!!!
-Jeff

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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by lucas » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:58 pm

...VERY VERY VERY nice, Phil ----a lot of hard work went into your 'set'.....
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by pj128 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:39 am

Any body who's collecting a GMTS can see how much work has gone into your set . I've been collecting mine for about two years and only about half way there,when I read it has taken you 4 years it gives me hope that I will eventually complete mine before I fall off the perch :)
Phil

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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by lucakiki » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:35 am

Very well done, Phil! Along with Wingnutt's tutorial, this is a invaluable help for all the gee guys who want to assemble their own set.
One day I will hopefully have mine sorted out, and a few available for sale as well, but I am afraid that will not be anytime soon.
Luca

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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
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43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Hartofoak » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:16 pm

Congratulations Phil on a fine MVMTS collection and a very comprehensive rationale and review which is packed with information. I have a feeling you'll never stop collecting and not be able to resist picking up that 'last' tool at the flea-market! That Armstrong 41-H-1501 looks to be a rarity.

This is very picky, but the MVMTS 41-T-3538 does not have your nice Auto-Lite spark plug gauge (41-G-350) but a simpler feeler-gauge type (41-G-355).
EDIT: You asked to see a photo, well this one arrived on my doorstep today and looks the part!
Kaster USA Spark Plug Gauge.jpg
Kaster USA Spark Plug Gauge.jpg (112.36 KiB) Viewed 7573 times
It also has the 41-W-1385 screwdriver and four file handles. You could also argue that there is no need to copy the GMTS lay-out for an MVMTS! I think my set will come under the title of a hybrid 'MV/G/MTS' so I can throw all the variant tools in the same box.

The G503.com guys who originally supplied all the literature about the MVMTS/GMTS namely: Greg Hines, Greg Kareofelas, Roger Briggs, Robert Notman & Maurizio Beretta (via 'Wingnutt') will be amazed at how many of us on this forum have been bitten by the Mechanic's Tool-set bug.
Last edited by Hartofoak on Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Silly's MB » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:33 pm

Phil, I have to agree with all the comments above that you have done a great job in compiling all the tools together with lots legitimate reasons for including them.

If you do want a constructive comment the 1943 wrench set 41-W-900 should be 7 wrench's not 9 and I believe the Duro-chrome G range is 1945 so maybe not so suitable for a MVMTS (although it is great set) better for the GMTK.

I really understand the amount of time you have spent finding everything and appreciate the help you have given me.

Roger
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Schultzd » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:16 pm

Thanks for posting this. It will be a great help for me!

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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by pjones » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:41 pm

Guys,
Thanks for the constructive feedback and photo's. I agree that this kit does have a few post '43 pieces including the autolite and the ignition wrenches. While I thought I was close to finished I believe I will make those 2 corrections....one day.
Hartofoak wrote: I have a feeling you'll never stop collecting and not be able to resist picking up that 'last' tool at the flea-market!
I hope you are right but already there is a feeling of what now?
phil
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by lucakiki » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:32 am

pjones wrote:
... but already there is a feeling of what now?
Jeep toys, for instance? :)
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Silly's MB » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:27 am

lucakiki wrote:
pjones wrote:
... but already there is a feeling of what now?
Jeep toys, for instance? :)
Being a Doctor ..................
ch04fig24.jpg
ch04fig24.jpg (80.66 KiB) Viewed 7531 times
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs ... apter4.htm
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by pjones » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:02 am

lucakiki wrote: Jeep toys, for instance? :)
Realizing this is the tool forum, nevertheless, thought you might like this one.
arnold.jpg
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phil
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by pjones » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:04 am

Silly's MB wrote: Being a Doctor ..................
ch04fig24.jpg
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs ... apter4.htm
Fascinating reading....there has to be a manual out there.... darn you Roger!! :)
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Schultzd » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:26 am

I think I have that toolbox. Any photos of the interior?

Dan
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Re: MVMTS----Mission Complete-----

Post by Wingnutt » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:32 am

Great-looking set, phil, and nicely done on its presentation.

One opening comment to you and all the other GMTK collectors out there about these sets, in general. While all of our GMTK’s are the same, or at least very close, technically, by definition, they all manage to possess some form of unique character through our personal choices. The first thing that struck me about yours, Phil, for example, was how dark it was. With the exception of the blond handle on the small ball peen, the varnished IRWIN handle, a few of the sockets, and a few of the DOEs, it has a very deep, dark tone to it that is very attractive. All the steel is dark and the dark burnished wood handles look really good. The set has a lot of “elbow grease” in it, and the whole thing looks “authentic.”

Now that I see the box in your keeper set I will admit that I prefer a preserved box versus a re-finished box. I know that you’ve re-finished one, and that others have re-finished theirs, but for me, a 'like new' re-painted box filled with used tools looks awkward.

Some random comments and questions…

What is the brand on the stubby screwdriver?

I appreciate that your logic is consistent and not unduly dictated by the RAPD figures. For example, you went with “DI” sockets and therefore Duro-Chrome for the 1/2-inch drive set, and you stuck with Duro-Chrome for the handles, even though the speeder and some of the other pieces might not match the RAPD figures.

I really like the bold choice of Williams Superrenches for you DOE. (I’d say I really like the Red Devil putty knife but it might sound self-serving, since that’s what I had in my box!)

On the topic of your short DBE set being mixed in type and brand. Remember that the MVMTS and early GMTS SNL’s did not specify 45-degree offsets. They weren’t specified until July 1945. In my opinion, short DBE’s with shallow (10- or 15-degree) or no offsets are acceptable and they’re much easier to find than short DBEs with 45-degree offsets.

I like all the correct <U><TI><CA>. Small adjustable, and even a chisel. What’s the third piece? (Only part of a handle is visible?) I’m guessing the water pump pliers?

I like that a few of your pliers are brand-matching (Kraeuter).

If you’re looking for something to do now, there are always minor “adjustments.”

You could convert more of your pliers to Kraeuter brand. You might want to find either a 12 inch Utica, or an 8 inch Crescent, so that your adjustables match. Going back to my initial comment, one small appearance change might be to look for an older handle for the 4-oz. ball peen. The dark used patina on the 32-oz. ball peen handle is really nice. Another might be to replace the chrome finish midget set ratchet with a black oxide to match the rest of the set. A third might be to replace the cad-plated finish sockets and the small drag link socket with dark natural steel finish versions.

Also, as Hartofoak and Silly’s MB have pointed out, it is a hybrid. If you really wanted to go more strictly MVMTS, you could hunt for those nuances and move the later GMTS pieces into more of a GMTS-oriented.

But it’s a fabulous set just as it is.
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