On grey painted tire pumps, just for the record.

[Chuck Lutz]

I would be interested to see anything whatsoever that supported the opinon that the Ford/Willys factory supplied a tire pump prior to the third model (with air nozzle) with a SHORTER hose than the one with the air nozzle....

Is it me or has any one ELSE noticed that while the pumps we have from the period seem to have the crimped flat band to attach the fittings at each end, the REPLACEMENT hoses posted as "NOS" have the same style small hose clamp you find on the rubber hose between the Oil Filler Tube and the Crossover Tube on a jeep with the PCV setup?

I would be of the opinion that a hose with the crimped ends was a product of WWII and a hose with the adjustable Screw-type clamp on it was a post-war replacement....or a very LATE war change that is too late for the RAPD photos...(not that they would change the photo just because the clamp was changed!)

FYI...I too have seen a few pumps with the red hose on them in a box full of them but dismissed them as replacements from the 40's or 50's.....now I accept that some pumps were delivered with red hose on them and...they might very well be Walker QMC pumps.

Brass air nozzles? I've got one on a correct length black hose with the correct clamp and.... with the fitting in the foot, the end and the air nozzle ALL in brass...here is Sean's NOERA:

Noera Tire Pump Circle N Sean.jpg (41.6 KiB) Viewed 1905 times

[lucakiki]

Why express doubt over QMC Pumps having Red Hoses after observing only a few. It must be assumed that there were thousands of QMC Pumps produced, who is qualified to determine that red was not installed on enough to make a difference.

Why?
Easily explained. All the pumps with red hoses I had seen in pictures were not of the Walker brand.
Maybe a coincidence, or maybe not.
So I legitimately expressed my doubt, at the same time assuring that I would gladly update my information in case anyone could back up the Walker /red hose connection with some safe enough evidence.
It works that way.
I have it as a policy of never arguing without reason, and of never posting contradictory statements.
On the contrary I could post a long list of contradictions in your posts, given it was worth it.
So, where is your useful contribution to the QMC pumps used on Willys or on Ford jeeps

[Chuck Lutz]

Red hose on a Walker? I can't confirm much more than it was from ebay...

M1937 Field Range Pump Walker QMC.jpg (70.02 KiB) Viewed 1902 times

M1937 Field Range Walker QMC.jpg (80.78 KiB) Viewed 1902 times

M1937 Field Range Handle Walker.jpg (71.6 KiB) Viewed 1902 times

[lucakiki]

I would be interested to see anything whatsoever that supported the opinon that the Ford/Willys factory supplied a tire pump prior to the third model (with air nozzle) with a SHORTER hose than the one with the air nozzle....

Is it me or has any one ELSE noticed that while the pumps we have from the period seem to have the crimped flat band to attach the fittings at each end, the REPLACEMENT hoses posted as "NOS" have the same style small hose clamp you find on the rubber hose between the Oil Filler Tube and the Crossover Tube on a jeep with the PCV setup?

I would be of the opinion that a hose with the crimped ends was a product of WWII and a hose with the adjustable Screw-type clamp on it was a post-war replacement....or a very LATE war change that is too late for the RAPD photos...(not that they would change the photo just because the clamp was changed!)

FYI...I too have seen a few pumps with the red hose on them in a box full of them but dismissed them as replacements from the 40's or 50's.....now I accept that some pumps were delivered with red hose on them and...they might very well be Walker QMC pumps.

Brass air nozzles? I've got one on a correct length black hose with the correct clamp and.... with the fitting in the foot, the end and the air nozzle ALL in brass...here is Sean's NOERA:

Noera Tire Pump Circle N Sean.jpg

Useful discussions are always welcome.
The possibility of pumps having been supplied with a shorter hose does not refer to Ford, given Ford GPWs only ever had the tube with the air nozzle.
As for the brass fittings no doubt other brands had the brass fittings.It is the Walkers pumps that I only ever saw with non brass fittings.Coincidence,maybe.
Also, give a better look at the two replacement hoses I POSTED and that you suspect of being post war.
The one for tires does have the crimped clamps, as expected. OK?

[Joe Gopan]

Has anyone noticed the similarity of the factory Gray used on the GPW engine and that of the factory gray as applied to the QMC tire pump?

[Chuck Lutz]

I would not even begin to speculate on the SHADE or COLOR of 70 year old scratched grey paint or go so far as to compare a motor exposed to engine oil, antifreeze, preservatives in some instances, possible repaints and weathering....to a grey tire pump that underwent different conditions and arrive at an assumption that they are"similar" in any way other than to say they are "GREY"

We DO know that Ford put tire pumps painted "OCEAN GREY" into Navy contract vehicles but the Ford motor assembly was not painted Ocean Grey.....and seems to have changed colors at least once....supposedly it was a color of grey associated with Ford tractors...which were probably not painted the US Navy color known as "Ocean Grey"....

[lucakiki]

A long time ago I had enquired about Ocean grey, in Ford papers.
What Ocean Grey acually is?
From memory, the answers were in not such a pleasing tone.
At the time, Jeff Bajczyk did compare the grey on the pumps he had handy with the grey painted superrenches he had handy.In his opinion, which I trust, the two greys were different.
Now, anyone is entitled to connect the dots in the way he feels like it.
Personally, I think that if a wrench and a pump show two very noticeably different grays,then one of the two might not be for Navy.
Now, whatever Ocean Grey actually is, I am of the opinion that by merely replicating the surviving original grey on the pump you get a close enough rendition of the original grey pump, whatever its original use.
No doubt that it will not be correct for a GPW.Nor for a late enough MB.
Given an early Willys actually used a QMC pump, according to mr. Jim Gilmore there is no evidence for the color.
And the merry go round keeps turning.

[Chuck Lutz]

There is a Ford Drawing that calls for tire pumps to be painted "Ocean Grey".
There is a Ford Drawing that calls for wrenches to be painted "Ocean Grey".
Do you have any documentation that calls for tire pumps or wrenches to be painted any OTHER color of grey?

We have two SOLID pieces of evidence that call for these items to be painted a certain color and no evidence to the contrary for another color of grey has surfaced....

...but if you think you can eyeball 70-year old paint and say with 100% guarantee that there must be ANOTHER color of grey, go right ahead.

Pending that, we have looked at so many shades of "original OD paint" on jeeps that are different shades over the years that I think trying to re-live that controversy about which shade of OD is correct seems to be what you are suggesting. Now if you have some documentation that someone ordered tire pumps in some OTHER color grey for the jeep or other uses....please post it.

[lucakiki]

...Is it me or has any one ELSE noticed that while the pumps we have from the period seem to have the crimped flat band to attach the fittings at each end, the REPLACEMENT hoses posted as "NOS" have the same style small hose clamp you find on the rubber hose between the Oil Filler Tube and the Crossover Tube on a jeep with the PCV setup?

I would be of the opinion that a hose with the crimped ends was a product of WWII and a hose with the adjustable Screw-type clamp on it was a post-war replacement....or a very LATE war change that is too late for the RAPD photos...(not that they would change the photo just because the clamp was changed!)

A careful enough observation the picture I have posted would give an answer:no one ELSE has noticed the clamp for the very simple reason that there is not one.
I have pointed this out to the poster, and I would have expected an acknowledgement of sort from his part.
I have not seen anything that might even remotely resemble an admission of having screwed up: food for thought.


As for the shorter hoses having actually been supplied with earlier pumps not fitted with air nozzle ,that is just a conjecture, clearly presented as such.

Many original hoses found on pumps very likely have been shortened somewhen during their service life.
Hence they prove nothing.
We have seen original replacement hoses, whichever their date of manufacture, that are short.
One cannot but wonder what they were intended for.

[Nikko]

Hi Luca and Ben

First thanks Ben for the picture of the QMC pump
Some years back i heard of a color named : BATTLE SHIP GRAY on Navy painted jeeps
mabye it is the same on the QMC pump? mabye Ben knows something about this color
Here is what i found out
http://whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/c ... _naval.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and this web page:http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/

Cheers From The north
Nikko

[lucakiki]

Hi Nikko! Glad that you liked what you saw in this thread.
However, may I draw your attention on my original post and on my reasons for posting it?
I have way too many times read false statements on my opinion regarding gray QMC pumps: all I cared about is to state once for ever what is my actual position on the issue.
There is plenty of old and recent threads where the features and the dates for pumps are discussed.
I hate when someone discusses things more to play the lawyer than to actually increase knowledge on an even minor issue like a pump.
I hate it when anyone posts without checking his facts first,rather than posting first and then engaging reverse ( if ever!) when he is busted.
I hate it when any discussion unnecessarily sidetracks, and is seen by someone as a mere opportunity to virtually shine someone else's boots, and repeat for the umpteenth time the Save Our Souls motif on his resumè.
The present knowledge on pumps has not improved that much since the old posts on the issue: maybe that is why someone very correctly expressed the desire to see a picture of a Willys with a QMC marked pump.
I sincerely hope that this will happen, in an as near as possible future.

[Chuck Lutz]

Nikko....during WWII the USN used several shades of grey...among them:
Pale Grey
Haze Grey
Light Grey
Ocean Grey

Anyone observing a grey tire pump painted to spec for instance by Ford for a Navy contract vehicle might have to wonder if in the last 70 years the US Navy ever repainted that tire pump......and if Ocean Grey was used or another shade available in the paint locker was used.

The term "Battleship Grey" is interesting because US Navy ships used a number of different shades of grey paint on them.

[Nikko]

Hi Luca

I got i little side tracked here so i applogize for that
The tire pump info that has come out is BRILLIANT info


Cheers FromThe North
Nikko

[Mark Tombleson]

Nikko....during WWII the USN used several shades of grey...among them:
Pale Grey
Haze Grey
Light Grey
Ocean Grey

Anyone observing a grey tire pump painted to spec for instance by Ford for a Navy contract vehicle might have to wonder if in the last 70 years the US Navy ever repainted that tire pump......and if Ocean Grey was used or another shade available in the paint locker was used.

The term "Battleship Grey" is interesting because US Navy ships used a number of different shades of grey paint on them.

There are lots of different color charts used by the modelers.

Here is one.
http://www.jpsmodell.de/katalog/jpsusn_e.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gray... or grey is hard to pin down as the US Navy used a lot of different grays... mine was painted two color grays between mid 1944 and 1950.

They are grouped by time period and purpose... as well as nation. In WWII the Navy changed their grays early, mid war and late war. There are a lot of grays.

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/order_form.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nikko]

Hi Luca

I have checked my QMC tire pump it is navy gray inn color. and it has a RED ribbed hose. It has a hoseclamp att the bottom like
pcv hose on the jeep engine. The air chuck(air filler) on the other end thoes not look like the other
but overall it is the same tire pump i have

Cheers From The North
Nikko