Serial Number for data plate on Australian Jeeps

[dforwood]

I have a 1944 MB with a chassis number MB309005 (built around end Feb 1994?) and an Australian Airforce registration number of 212457.

Does anyone know what the serial number for the nomenclature plate would have been.

Also,

I have an this additional ID plate (see photo). Does Anyone know what this means?

TIA

Danny

[Bill M]

G'day Danny, I have no idea what the plate signifies but I have one on a rough Willys MB.

cheers
Bill Mullen.

[Jon]

Bill....
I think you'll find it's commonly referred to as a "Census" number.....I have no idea why.....but many have been found on Aussie jeeps.

JR

[Bill M]

Thanks Jon, I have seen the Census numbers before but the plates were crudely stamped and didn't have Harden & Johnston on them. I'd be interested if there is any more info on H & J as I'm sure Danny would be.
cheers
Bill.

[Mike Kelly]

hi Danny

I have two of those Harden and Johnson plates

One from a 1941 slatt grill MB 524-C38

One from a 1942 WC-21 1/2 Ton Dodge WC 495-998

I believe they were a surplus company in Sydney , but thats a guess .

Stokoe Motors in Nth Melbourne , sold surplus Jeeps just after the war , and they also attached a brass plate on their Jeeps . I have seen one , but only one , up in Mildura years ago.

Census numbers were totally different to those on the H & J plates . The census number was the vehicles army registration number as found on the bonnet , otherwise known as the ARN number .

Mike in Gippsland

[Jon]

Thanks Mike.....

Now I know too..... .....No Census plates on my GPW.....no sign of it ever being fitted either.

JR

[dforwood]

I had a brief discussion with John Edwards from "History on Wheels" who said that Harden & Johnston Ltd were the importer of Jeep to Australia, and that the number relates to a contract number.

I've sent him an email to try to get a little more detail in writting, but he tends to be a little tight lipped. I will post anything I can find.

Danny

[Mike Kelly]

I had a brief discussion with John Edwards from "History on Wheels" who said that Harden & Johnston Ltd were the importer of Jeep to Australia, and that the number relates to a contract number.

I've sent him an email to try to get a little more detail in writting, but he tends to be a little tight lipped. I will post anything I can find.

Danny

That sounds a little strange to me . Importer of Jeep to Australia ? Why would one of their plates turn up on a 1/2 Ton Dodge WC ? I think they probably dealt in surplus vehicles generally . Another surplus company operating in Sydney was Torokina spares , they imported surplus vehicles from the Solomon Islands and sold them around NSW . Quite a few ex NZ army C8AX trucks have been found around NSW , with the NZ 3rd Div formation sign on them . The NZ 3rd Div was stationed in the Solomons and the NZ Govt. sold off the trucks in situ , rather than bringing them home .



Stokoe Motors in Melbourne were Australia's first official Jeep agents , that is beyond question . They began their link with Jeeps by selling surplus WW2 Jeeps , then got into the CJ stuff . It was a family owned business and they also had the agency for ATCO mowers and other odd ball stuff . I used to go there in the 1970's and buy the odd part or two . The parts were often in old faded Willys - Overland marked boxes . Stokoe's closed about ten years ago, but the old building is still there , opposite Nth Melbourne football ground , Arden Street .

Mike

[dforwood]

[quote]Importer of Jeep to Australia ? Why would one of their plates turn up on a 1/2 Ton Dodge WC ? quote]

My understanding is that they acted as agents for the Australian Government 'during' the war for US imported vehicles (according to JE). Which would explain why their plates appear on other US vehicles.

However, as I said, this is just what John Edwards passed on. I've done a quick search of national archives and cann't find anything to confirm this.

All I know is that when I spoke with John he referred to the number as a contract number and said that this could be used to estimate the vehicles "date of arrival" in Australia.

John said that he had copies of the original documents, but as anyone who has dealt with John will know, he's a little reluctant to put his information in the public arena.

[dforwood]

I just got this response from the AWM:

Harden and Johnston were EITHER the assemblers in Australia (the vehicles arrived SKD in boxes, and contracted out to various companies to assemble and mark with Aust registrations) OR the purchasers from disposals auctions (which is much more likely) and the plate fixed to the vehicle when they went to re-sell it to the civilian market. 519-029 is probably an internal H&J reference number: this company turned over a lot of jeeps to the civilian market following purchases from the Commonwealth Disposals Commission (CDC). They habitually fixed these labels to the vehicles they sold (we have similar plate on the floor of a Dodge T110L)

[Mike Kelly]

I would be more inclined to follow the AWM lead on this research - That's probably Mike Cecil's major area of interest , he is usually spot on with his research so the AWM more or less back up what I thought , H & J may have been surplus dealers who dealt with a range of vehicles .

Maybe the NSW state archives would help out ..... its an interesting topic .

Canadian cycle company , another Melbourne company I believe , were selling surplus vehicles like Dodge's and Jeeps after the war . I recall seeing the hundreds of packets of WW2 Jeep front axle seal kits , with the Canadian Cycle ID on them, at Hancocks in Camberwell ....

Mike

[dforwood]

I would be more inclined to follow the AWM lead on this research - That's probably Mike Cecil's major area of interest , he is usually spot on with his research so the AWM more or less back up what I thought , H & J may have been surplus dealers who dealt with a range of vehicles .

I think with you on that one. The question whether to leave the plate in place (for a motor pool) restoration, or remove it.

Also, back to my original question -- is the serial number on the data plate the chassis number, the us hood number or something else?

[Gary C V]

If you want info from John Edwards,open your wallet, that will open his mouth.

Cheers Gary

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Danny,

I have been searching Harden and Johnson info and stumbled upon this thread. In reading, i saw we hadnt answered your original question!
So, incase you handn't gotten an answer by now, the serial number for your nomenclature plate would be MB309005.

Could you please repost the picture of your Harden and Johnson plate too?

Cheers,
Ian.

[Ron Geddes]

Hi Stokoe Motors assemble WILLYS vehicles pre war, the bodys were made by HOLDEN and shipped to stokoe motors at that NTH MELBOURNE factory
from chassis,engine fitment,body, to paint shop upholsterer to testing the cars in those days there main show room was in exhibition street
where there is a hotel now. They where alo agents for MACK trucks ,Armstrong siddely cars, Golith brand of cars which had 2cyld 2stroke engines
and as mentioned atco mowers
RON