Rebuilding the jeep engine PART FOUR-TIMING!

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
John Boy
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Oil pump

Post by John Boy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:39 pm

The machine shop that did the work on my GPW block included a Melling
M53A oil pump. Is there any reason why I should not use this pump?
Many projects, little time.

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Need Help with timing-- experts please help

Post by scosne » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:19 pm

I have read John Barton's write up on timing and I am still having a problem.
1942 Ford GPW with 44 Willys' engine. I thought I had the timing right but when I tried to start the engine no luck and I was getting back presssure up thru the carb. Anyway, I started over. Right now my engine looks like the picture in Johns wirte up. #1 cyl TDC, both valves closed, same with #4. The flywheel is set so the IGN is showing thru the timing hole. The manual indicates the distributor rotor should be pointing toward the #1 spark plug wire off the distributor at this point. Lower front right of the distributor. Here's my problem. my rotor is pointing at #4 off the distributor. This would tell me I am 180 degrees out of time ( I think) but I am confused as to how and correct this problem. If I bring the rotor to the lower right of the distributor #1 cly is no longer in the the firing stroke. Can someone help me out please. I really would like to here this baby run.
Scott

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Post by john barton » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:56 pm

Hi Scott...
two options
easiest is just to run your plug wires from where you are..
wherever rotor points with #1 cyl tdc on compression becomes wire to
#1 spark plug...go counterclock wise.. next one goes to 3, then 4, then 2

your oil pump is not in time with crank and cam..
lower it and look down thru distributor hole..line up slot as i
explained in instuctions..remember you need to back it up a little as it turns when it engages cam...

john
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Re: Need Help with timing-- experts please help

Post by Sean Collins » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:25 am

Scott:

In addition to Johns suggestions, you may have a 3rd option. More tedious than just moving wires, but easier than relocating the oil pump:

Rotate the points cam in the distributor -- Take the distributor apart to the point where you can remove the advance springs. lift the breaker cam straight up & rotate it 180º, set it back down & reinstall advance springs & other parts. (YMMV, ability to do this may depend on which distributor you have)

But before you do that, I'm confused by this:
#1 cyl TDC, both valves closed, same with #4.
That's not possible. When #1 valves are closed, #4 will be open (slightly), and vice-versa. Would be best to first determine which valves are truly closed.

Sean

scosne
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timing problem

Post by scosne » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:27 am

John and Sean
Thanks for the quick reply. Great to have you guys out there for those of us on the first time around. I will try these solutions. Here's another curious thing I noticed when I was trying to start the engine. I was seeing some coolent coming up around two of my head bolts. Any idea what that is about?
Scott


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Post by Derek Eddlestone » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:17 pm

It's nice to see this engine rebuilding guide being featured in the Military Vehicle Trust magazine in the UK. Hard to understand but there are still some owners who don't follow the Gee.

Derek.

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Remko
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Post by Remko » Sat May 10, 2008 2:26 am

Hi,

Rebuilding my chain drive engine....

When i put in the pump, and want it to end up with the slot pointing at 11 -11:30 to 5 - 5:30 (position of #1 spark plug wire) fat side on top, i have to put in the pump in @ 8:30, turning back to 5:30

do i have the right cam?

how should the cam gear for the pump be pointing (photo) for a chain-engine ?

can it be that i have a wrong cam? (cam and pump are meshing up perfect)


thanks for any advice
Remko

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Daveyk01
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Post by Daveyk01 » Sat May 24, 2008 3:11 pm

Winter is finally over here in Central, PA. I have finally fired the engine back up after changing the oil pump and messing the timing up.

Well, it runs.

Idle seems too fast, but the new exhast system is just a glass-pack so I don't know if that is influencing my opinion of the idle speed. Still seems to fast.

Now here is the issue: I am seeing a lot of smoke coming from the valve cover overflow pipe. There appears to be a lot of exhast fumes in the crank case too (oil fill cap). When I pull the excelleration linkage, boy does the exhast come out of that overflow pipe.

Exhast out of the tail pipe is quite strong.

It did not do this before I replaced the oil pump. At that same time, last year, I also pulled the carb, and the intake and exhast manifolds. I cleaned up the block where they mount on, used some JB weld to make up for some engine block corrosion where there had been and exhast leak at the exhast manifold. Replaced the gasket and then re-bolted the exhast and intake manifolds back on. No leaks from them now.

When I had the exhast and intake manifolds off, I removed the oil pan and the valve cover and un-gooked the engine cleaning out the journals, the oil pan float and oil paths in the lower engine block. At least what I could get at with the cover off. Inside the valve cover I throughly cleaned that whole area. I found what looked like broken metal fragments from the value guides, or something, but mainly removed a lot of gook.

Now with everything back together, it idles fast (idel screw on carb doesn't do much) and it smokes pretty good out that oil overflow pipe. It does not idle rough. The excelleration is not rough or hesitating.

The valves may not be good, but it did not do this before I did the above.

The old intake/exhast gasket was bad. It is possible there was leaks on the intake side, I don't know, but I know it leaked on the output side. It doesn't now.

If it had leaked before, could the valves/engine/carb have been tuned of a leaky engine?

With the excelleration link set for the throttle control completely off, how can it be idleling too fast? I have rotated the distributor CCW with the engine running and have seemed to relieve some valve knocking I may have heard but the idle is still too fast and that doesn't effect the smoke in the crank case.

I am by no means even close to an engine beginner.

What did I screw up? Is there any suggestions I could do please?

Thanks much.

P.S. - no smoke out tail pipe, just good old clean carbon monoxcide (and strong output at that!)
Dave


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Remko
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Post by Remko » Sun May 25, 2008 2:06 am

Hi,

smoke out of the vent pipe..... i think serious or minor serious problems

minor serious, a stuck valve (pop the head, and valve cover and see....

more serious, a busted set of piston rings
Remko

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Daveyk01
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Post by Daveyk01 » Sun May 25, 2008 10:55 am

Remko wrote:Hi,

smoke out of the vent pipe..... i think serious or minor serious problems

minor serious, a stuck valve (pop the head, and valve cover and see....

more serious, a busted set of piston rings
Iy, yi, yi. It did stop smoking after a while. I also added drygas. Don't know why that would have helped.

I drove it around and made some minor adjustments to the timing.

As for the high idle. I found that I had to re-locate the accellerator linkage spring (it wasn't in the right spot to begin with.

Before I pulled the intake/exhast manifolds and repaired the linkaged, it needed about 10% off the min idle location to idle correctly. Now with that fixed, I had to put the sping in a spot that keeps the excelleration linage completely closed. It idles nicely now at minimal throttle. I think I had to open the idle adjust screw about a turn.

The bad news.... after the engine warms up, it loosed oil pressure in the rear where the take-off is. Oil flows very well in to the filter and the engine sounds good. I suspect the rear bearings leak like a sive, but who cares? The engine is 60 years old, has never been overhauled that I can tell. I suspect it needs rings too, although it had very good pick-up.

I am going to drive it like it is for two years and then will buy a re-built engine from Russel Deese for $2500 or what ever he charges at that time.

For now, I have the med-kit to mount and the spring top to paint and mount.

Since I had it, I replaced all brake shoes, all metal brake lines, all wheel cyclendars, all rubber break lines, the mater cyclendar, the fuel pump, added two fuel filters, replaced the oil pump, fixed the distrubutor, replaced ALL wiring, then most of the exhast system, the rear leaf springs, the bumperettes, all five tires, re-mounted the spare on the rear, major body re-work, added the shovel and axe, added the B/O light, coverted to 12 volts, re-painted everything and re-painted all the markings, re-worked the steering box, replaced the bell crank, added a stablizer, and probably much more.

It looks great. The engine (duh on my part) will have to wait a year or two; I am broke now <lol>.

It runs, not at its ideal, but it runs. The smoking stopped, don't know why, don't really care. Maybe when I had the oil pan off, I may have used engine de-gunking to clean out the inside. Quite frankly, I don't remember. If I did, maybe that is why I had so much smoke from the crank case??? Anyway, for now it stopped.

Take care.
Dave


fernando mendes
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Grinding Valves.

Post by fernando mendes » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:39 pm

John I loved this job about Jeep grinding valves.When you said "The adjuster is like a regular bolt. Turn right (clockwise /in) to turn it down into tappet, which opens/increases clearance. Turn left (counterclockwise/out) to close/decrease clearance." .I think it is "Turn left(clockwise/in)......Turn right(counterclockwise/out)....What do you think?Am I right or wrong?Regards.Fernando.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Remko
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Post by Remko » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 am

Daveyk01 wrote:
The engine is 60 years old, has never been overhauled that I can tell. I suspect it needs rings too, although it had very good pick-up.

I am going to drive it like it is for two years and then will buy a re-built engine from Russel Deese for $2500 or what ever he charges at that time.

Take care.
$2500 for a rebuild engine.... hmmm sounds nice.

I just had mine done, for about 2500 in parts (he would not have anything for labor :? )

- resleeved to std.
- all new interior (pistons,valves&guides, cranck and cam, distr. bearings to std etc. etc.)
- new oilpump
- overhauled fuelpump and carb
- re dused starter (new bendix)
- re used generator

To loosen up piston rings.... pour some brake oil (not silicone fluid) in the carb with a running engine.... (i heard it would work)
Remko

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G503 MB spare engine
G529 T3 B50633 CX5713957
G529 T3 111984 (FOR SALE)
G529 MBT
The Holland Lands
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fernando mendes
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Valves sequence.

Post by fernando mendes » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:48 pm

John Barton what do you think about this?Front to rear of the top/block of the Jeep(four) engine the valves follow the sequence:EI-IE-EI-IE.1)Cylinder DOWN only can be=INTAKE or POWER;2)Cylinder UP only can be=COMPRESSION or EXHAUST.3)INTAKE&EXHAUST=one valve open;4)POWER&COMPRESSION=both valves closed.At this point we have to adjust them.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Cowboy Bob
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Post by Cowboy Bob » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:05 pm

anybudy gotta jeepy block dey dont want. need a mooring ancher fer ole bobs bass boat in da lake. current caint be trusted even fer a nite dam varmint cud be gone before yuh knows it fer sure. prefer da off brand but will take willys
next tam yer too drunk ta drive, wak to da neerest pizza shop an place an ordur. when dey go ta deliver it, catch a ride hom widdem

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Re: Rebuilding the jeep engine PART FOUR-TIMING!

Post by Shadow » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:04 am

Hi There, Does anyone know where i can get the final part of this great series from ?? I have emailed the author but have no answers yet, any ideas ?? Thanks

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