Navy Grey Jeep
- Mark Tombleson
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Navy Grey Jeep
I'm posting this for my friend, who cannot post here.
Jim thinks that Franks' USA number is a bit EARLY for his jeep. As we know
that Franks' is another Louisville jeep......like mine and Paulies.
Paulies is 109945 and is 4/21/43
Paulies hood # is 20371664
Mine is 108552 and is 4/21/43
My hood number is 20371278
Motor was made on March 30th (the DOD being 22 days later)
Frank's is 109528 and is 5/ /43
Frank's hood number is 20376332
Frank's motor was made in April according to Jim.
Everything looks good to me on Frank's jeep.....but Jim Gilmore has this one
in his own Louisville data base so he can check it out using either the
Serial Number or the USA number and confirm what Frank, Paulie, myself and
Lloyd have seen on that jeep.
Should be easy enough to check and then Frank gets the shipping info, the
boxcar it left on, the railroad that took it, and probably confirmation of
the type of tires it had!
Chuck
Jim thinks that Franks' USA number is a bit EARLY for his jeep. As we know
that Franks' is another Louisville jeep......like mine and Paulies.
Paulies is 109945 and is 4/21/43
Paulies hood # is 20371664
Mine is 108552 and is 4/21/43
My hood number is 20371278
Motor was made on March 30th (the DOD being 22 days later)
Frank's is 109528 and is 5/ /43
Frank's hood number is 20376332
Frank's motor was made in April according to Jim.
Everything looks good to me on Frank's jeep.....but Jim Gilmore has this one
in his own Louisville data base so he can check it out using either the
Serial Number or the USA number and confirm what Frank, Paulie, myself and
Lloyd have seen on that jeep.
Should be easy enough to check and then Frank gets the shipping info, the
boxcar it left on, the railroad that took it, and probably confirmation of
the type of tires it had!
Chuck
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
- Tom Wolboldt
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43 GPW
Hi Mark's Friend
Why do you think that Franks' GPW is a Louisville GPW? I believe it to be otherwise from the data that Frank has posted.
Frank do you have a photo the the data plate that you can post here or send to me? Thanks!
Why do you think that Franks' GPW is a Louisville GPW? I believe it to be otherwise from the data that Frank has posted.
Frank do you have a photo the the data plate that you can post here or send to me? Thanks!
Last edited by Tom Wolboldt on Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Navy Grey jeeps
I served in the navy in Korea. Each small ship had some type of vehicle for use on shore. We had a Dodge carryall painted grey with a black USN and a number in black.
We painted our ship's vehicle with the same grey paint we used on our LCVP's and Mike boats. None of us were vehicle collectors at the time so it didn't make any difference what shade of grey we used. If it would go though a spray gun we used it. The inside and under the hood was army OD. We just wanted our vehicle to be some shade of navy grey and different from an army vehicle in color.
Always remember unless you are putting your jeep in a formal judging contest most people are just happy to see a WWII jeep. The serviving veterans of the WWII - Korea - Vietnam era are up in age and are suffering from failing eyesite and cateracts so we won't challenge the shade of gray you use. We're proud of you for having the courage to paint you jeep in navy grey with black shipboard markings.
Thanks for keeping a piece of "rolling history" going and sharing it with others around you.
Peace,
Ralph
We painted our ship's vehicle with the same grey paint we used on our LCVP's and Mike boats. None of us were vehicle collectors at the time so it didn't make any difference what shade of grey we used. If it would go though a spray gun we used it. The inside and under the hood was army OD. We just wanted our vehicle to be some shade of navy grey and different from an army vehicle in color.
Always remember unless you are putting your jeep in a formal judging contest most people are just happy to see a WWII jeep. The serviving veterans of the WWII - Korea - Vietnam era are up in age and are suffering from failing eyesite and cateracts so we won't challenge the shade of gray you use. We're proud of you for having the courage to paint you jeep in navy grey with black shipboard markings.
Thanks for keeping a piece of "rolling history" going and sharing it with others around you.
Peace,
Ralph
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Are We Having Fun Yet ?
Yo Tom,
Let me know what information off the plate that you need and I will be happy to post it for you. Not currently able to do the photo thing, due to technical issues with the ol camera.
Yo Ralph,
Finally, a darn fine statement about what was/is really done when one is in the service. You are given a job, and you do that job to the best of your ability with whatever you have on hand, can scrounge or get by other means. The object is get the job done and the gunny off your back or chief petty officer or whomever.
The WC-21 that I had and since sold was originally an army vehicle with both the 4 inch and 2 inch usa numbers, sometime in its life it was a navy vehicle that was painted usmc green over the exterior body, red lead under the fenders, frame, differentials, springs, etc and a hand painted yellow usn number on the nose piece and od under the hood. I never restored or repainted the dodge, just replaced the engine, tires, upholstery, some of the wiring, did a brake job, and off to the races. It is still this way today, with the original usmc forrest green on it, red lead underneath and the yellow hand painted usn number on the nose piece. The usmc color on it is not even close to what is sold now a days, it was probably hand mixed from a combination of colors available at the time the job was done.
Lets get some reality in these restoration projects and use some common sense. No, all the i's won't be dotted, nor the t's crossed, but the vehicle would probably be closer than what it represents in the field, then when it came from the factory. After all, it is your project and your bucks and yours to enjoy and share with others, so have fun with it !!!!
As far as my usmc ambulance jeep is concerned, years ago, I had a 41 slat grill, the Willys number was 102554, with a DOD of 12-31-41. The jeep nows lives in Florida and has been featured on the G roundup. The unique thing about this jeep is the DOD should have been quite a bit earlier than it was, but for whatever unknown reason, the DOD was as stated. So who really knows why after all these years, but that is the way it was stamped.
So who is gunna buy the ice cream ?
Frank
Let me know what information off the plate that you need and I will be happy to post it for you. Not currently able to do the photo thing, due to technical issues with the ol camera.
Yo Ralph,
Finally, a darn fine statement about what was/is really done when one is in the service. You are given a job, and you do that job to the best of your ability with whatever you have on hand, can scrounge or get by other means. The object is get the job done and the gunny off your back or chief petty officer or whomever.
The WC-21 that I had and since sold was originally an army vehicle with both the 4 inch and 2 inch usa numbers, sometime in its life it was a navy vehicle that was painted usmc green over the exterior body, red lead under the fenders, frame, differentials, springs, etc and a hand painted yellow usn number on the nose piece and od under the hood. I never restored or repainted the dodge, just replaced the engine, tires, upholstery, some of the wiring, did a brake job, and off to the races. It is still this way today, with the original usmc forrest green on it, red lead underneath and the yellow hand painted usn number on the nose piece. The usmc color on it is not even close to what is sold now a days, it was probably hand mixed from a combination of colors available at the time the job was done.
Lets get some reality in these restoration projects and use some common sense. No, all the i's won't be dotted, nor the t's crossed, but the vehicle would probably be closer than what it represents in the field, then when it came from the factory. After all, it is your project and your bucks and yours to enjoy and share with others, so have fun with it !!!!
As far as my usmc ambulance jeep is concerned, years ago, I had a 41 slat grill, the Willys number was 102554, with a DOD of 12-31-41. The jeep nows lives in Florida and has been featured on the G roundup. The unique thing about this jeep is the DOD should have been quite a bit earlier than it was, but for whatever unknown reason, the DOD was as stated. So who really knows why after all these years, but that is the way it was stamped.
So who is gunna buy the ice cream ?
Frank
The Fireman
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Mark wrote,
"......You talking about the eight jeeps for the USMC at the White House, the 653 I noted above, the one radio jeep (is that the one photographed?) or are there other GPWs I don't know about, Jim? Are they forest green, Navy gray or OD? I'm always interested in learning.........."
Nope, not those........they were just regular production GPW's that were sent back to the Ford plant to be modified. They were shipped out in Lusterless Olive Drab.
I was referring to the Navy order for Ford GP's. They recieved a 1/2 dozen or so........
Painted the same as the one USMC GP..........Lusterless Olive Drab.
Jim Gilmore
"......You talking about the eight jeeps for the USMC at the White House, the 653 I noted above, the one radio jeep (is that the one photographed?) or are there other GPWs I don't know about, Jim? Are they forest green, Navy gray or OD? I'm always interested in learning.........."
Nope, not those........they were just regular production GPW's that were sent back to the Ford plant to be modified. They were shipped out in Lusterless Olive Drab.
I was referring to the Navy order for Ford GP's. They recieved a 1/2 dozen or so........
Painted the same as the one USMC GP..........Lusterless Olive Drab.
Jim Gilmore
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Mark's friend posted,
"........Jim thinks that Franks' USA number is a bit EARLY for his jeep. As we know
that Franks' is another Louisville jeep......
Frank's is 109528 and is 5/ /43
Frank's hood number is 20376332
Frank's motor was made in April according to Jim.
Everything looks good to me on Frank's jeep.....but Jim Gilmore has this one
in his own Louisville data base so he can check it out using either the
Serial Number or the USA number and confirm what Frank, Paulie, myself and
Lloyd have seen on that jeep.............."
Sorry C,
The number you posted for Frank's GPW (109528) was the number I asked him about and not his actual number which is 109730.
GPW- 109730 is not a valid number for a Louisville jeep.
I do not think it was assembled in May as the numbers are April ones.
Most likely this GPW was assembled in April and not actually delivered until May, hence the 5-43 date on the data plate. This would sometimes happen as vehicles were held for repairs or re-distribution.
It is indeed a very interesting jeep and having both the USA and USMC numbers gives it a real pedigree!
BTW.......... GPW 109528 was sold in May, 1946 at Camp Parks, Shoemaker, CA. with the original motor for $50.00. (the jeep was in scrap condition)
That's why I asked Frank if this was his number.
Jim Gilmore
"........Jim thinks that Franks' USA number is a bit EARLY for his jeep. As we know
that Franks' is another Louisville jeep......
Frank's is 109528 and is 5/ /43
Frank's hood number is 20376332
Frank's motor was made in April according to Jim.
Everything looks good to me on Frank's jeep.....but Jim Gilmore has this one
in his own Louisville data base so he can check it out using either the
Serial Number or the USA number and confirm what Frank, Paulie, myself and
Lloyd have seen on that jeep.............."
Sorry C,
The number you posted for Frank's GPW (109528) was the number I asked him about and not his actual number which is 109730.
GPW- 109730 is not a valid number for a Louisville jeep.
I do not think it was assembled in May as the numbers are April ones.
Most likely this GPW was assembled in April and not actually delivered until May, hence the 5-43 date on the data plate. This would sometimes happen as vehicles were held for repairs or re-distribution.
It is indeed a very interesting jeep and having both the USA and USMC numbers gives it a real pedigree!
BTW.......... GPW 109528 was sold in May, 1946 at Camp Parks, Shoemaker, CA. with the original motor for $50.00. (the jeep was in scrap condition)
That's why I asked Frank if this was his number.
Jim Gilmore
- Mark Tombleson
- MZ Radio Operator
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Thanks Jim, I will amend my records on Navy jeeps to include approximately six GP.
I'm assuming these were front wheel steer only?
Any serial numbers to go along with these GPs, or any of the Navy/USMC jeeps noted above?
I'm assuming these were front wheel steer only?
Any serial numbers to go along with these GPs, or any of the Navy/USMC jeeps noted above?
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
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Louieville Jeep
Yo Jim,
If I can be so bold to inquire, what makes a GPW a Louieville Jeep. Is there something on the data plate that would signify this or is there something else.
Thank you for providing the information to date and thanks for the "pedigree" recognition. The only I forgot to add, is on this jeep, is a TAC marking which I believe after doing quite abit of USMC research and using the 5 th mar div history this jeep was at one time in its life assigned to the 5 th medical bn, company B, which was assigned to combat team 27, which made the assault on Iwo. The 5 th medical bn was assigned to the 5 th mar div, various companies of the bn were assigned to different C T which are marine regiments according to the 5 th mar div history. In the book, Surgeon on Iwo, by Dr.Vedder(USN), it is mentioned on page 205, that the ambulance jeep that Vedder was using from another company and the doctor(Shultz) of that company wanted his ambulance jeep back so they could load it on the transport to ship out. So there maybe a possiblity that the jeep did serve in combat during WW II and return to the states. The amb jeep was returned to Shultz on d day plus 31/32 as Dr. Vedder was shipped out on d day 32.
Frank
If I can be so bold to inquire, what makes a GPW a Louieville Jeep. Is there something on the data plate that would signify this or is there something else.
Thank you for providing the information to date and thanks for the "pedigree" recognition. The only I forgot to add, is on this jeep, is a TAC marking which I believe after doing quite abit of USMC research and using the 5 th mar div history this jeep was at one time in its life assigned to the 5 th medical bn, company B, which was assigned to combat team 27, which made the assault on Iwo. The 5 th medical bn was assigned to the 5 th mar div, various companies of the bn were assigned to different C T which are marine regiments according to the 5 th mar div history. In the book, Surgeon on Iwo, by Dr.Vedder(USN), it is mentioned on page 205, that the ambulance jeep that Vedder was using from another company and the doctor(Shultz) of that company wanted his ambulance jeep back so they could load it on the transport to ship out. So there maybe a possiblity that the jeep did serve in combat during WW II and return to the states. The amb jeep was returned to Shultz on d day plus 31/32 as Dr. Vedder was shipped out on d day 32.
Frank
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numbers
Yo Mark,
In answer to your earlier question about how many amb jeeps per division, I go again to the Hyper War:USMC Operations in WW II: Vol III--Central Pacific Drive [Appendix F], page 3, it lists under Transportation Ambulance 1/4 ton, 4 X 4, Number -- 52. The magazine article dated April 1945 also lists 52 assigned to each division.
As you well know, there were six marine divisions in WW II, so that would be 6 times 52 or 312 if my math is correct. You would also have to factor in the ones used in training, stateside ones, ones assigned to other portions of the corps, replacement vehicles, etc. As far as a total number produced, I would not have the number.
Your own research may have other numbers that you have uncovered. Your dedication to your project restoration is very commendable and not only that, but you done good on it. I do not in any way want to be the final authority on this and am open to more facts that can be substaniated, documented, proved or whatever. You just never know what is behind the cover of the next document or what will be uncovered. Speculation is fine, but facts speak for themselves as you well know.
For what it is worth,
Frank
In answer to your earlier question about how many amb jeeps per division, I go again to the Hyper War:USMC Operations in WW II: Vol III--Central Pacific Drive [Appendix F], page 3, it lists under Transportation Ambulance 1/4 ton, 4 X 4, Number -- 52. The magazine article dated April 1945 also lists 52 assigned to each division.
As you well know, there were six marine divisions in WW II, so that would be 6 times 52 or 312 if my math is correct. You would also have to factor in the ones used in training, stateside ones, ones assigned to other portions of the corps, replacement vehicles, etc. As far as a total number produced, I would not have the number.
Your own research may have other numbers that you have uncovered. Your dedication to your project restoration is very commendable and not only that, but you done good on it. I do not in any way want to be the final authority on this and am open to more facts that can be substaniated, documented, proved or whatever. You just never know what is behind the cover of the next document or what will be uncovered. Speculation is fine, but facts speak for themselves as you well know.
For what it is worth,
Frank
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For your files
Yo Jim,
At the request of another G member I went out to the amb/jeep and again looked at the data plate. This is what I found.
mystery box was not stamped, it was blank
DOD was stamped 5 43
Serial number is 109730
Wt is stamped 3125
The stamped numbers fill up the box area, they are not short of the box borders. Yes they are the original plates on the jeep, not reproductions.
TM data is still painted over and not readable at this time. Also the camera and I are not communicating, so at this time I am unable to take a digital photo of the plate.
I hope this helps some,
Frank
ps: What makes a Louieville GPW ????
At the request of another G member I went out to the amb/jeep and again looked at the data plate. This is what I found.
mystery box was not stamped, it was blank
DOD was stamped 5 43
Serial number is 109730
Wt is stamped 3125
The stamped numbers fill up the box area, they are not short of the box borders. Yes they are the original plates on the jeep, not reproductions.
TM data is still painted over and not readable at this time. Also the camera and I are not communicating, so at this time I am unable to take a digital photo of the plate.
I hope this helps some,
Frank
ps: What makes a Louieville GPW ????
The Fireman
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Here it is, a little rough I suspect from not being a digitized photo to start with.lucakiki wrote:... If any kind soul cares to enlarge the jeep and repost it for us, I thank him very much. ...
Looks like a Slatgrill? No windshield?
Dave Manning
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-Ernest Hemingway, Crossing the Mississippi
- lucakiki
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Thank you Dave! I have just noticed to day your enlargement.
Yes, no windshield: most likely dispensed with as useless on board, and because of the glare. Not sure about the grille,and even the bumper could have had some modification. Not sure wether the seats were painted over or the cushions dispensed with, so what we see is the sheetmetal.
For sure this pic proves that they did go at them with the spray gun(or brushes?) and whatever grey paint was around. Ralph Wicke posted more than once witnessing this practice, most of the times done in a hurry and not officially.
Yes, no windshield: most likely dispensed with as useless on board, and because of the glare. Not sure about the grille,and even the bumper could have had some modification. Not sure wether the seats were painted over or the cushions dispensed with, so what we see is the sheetmetal.
For sure this pic proves that they did go at them with the spray gun(or brushes?) and whatever grey paint was around. Ralph Wicke posted more than once witnessing this practice, most of the times done in a hurry and not officially.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
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Re: Navy Grey Jeep
Those darned sailors steal......
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Re: Navy Grey Jeep
Never
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1944 MB 349858, 20620361
1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=225199
MVPA # 8587
Com / Inst. SMEL
CFII - ASEL
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Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known
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1944 MB 349858, 20620361
1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=225199
MVPA # 8587
Com / Inst. SMEL
CFII - ASEL
KI5LYB
Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known
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