Italian Jeep chassis frame numbers

[James Fraser]

Hello
This is my first post so please go easy on me!
I have recently purchased a Willys Jeep from Italy which has two numbers stamped on the front end of chassis frame between the bumper and the grill: a longer number 490329548 on the vertical face (drivers side)

and a shorter number 300462 on the top horizontal face (passenger side)

- please see the attached photos. There are unusual stampings either end of the long number

and what look like circular stampings either end of the shorter number.

These numbers are also on the old Italian registration document. The Jeep belonged to a farmer in Italy who I believe purchased it from the Italian Army in the late 1940s. Unfortunately it has lost its Willys chassis tag and glove box identity plate but I think the body number suggests a date of approximately May 1944 (55908)

.
Does anybody know what these chassis stampings refer to? Are they Italian Army numbers or something else? Is there a date code within them e.g. 29th March 1949 number 548 or 29th May 1948 number 4903?
I suppose it's wishful thinking to hope one could track the Jeep's history or original number from Italian Army records?
Many thanks for any help and really excited to finally own a Jeep!
Best wishes
James

[sjalbert]

Welcome to the "G"

An MB with a serial number of 329548 with a body number of 55908 could be a matching set for a Jeep built in mid May of 1944. The 490 in front of the 329548 could have been an attempt to match same standard identification number format (this is pure speculation). Is the body still attached to the frame with PAL nuts?

[70th Division]

Hello James,

Welcome to the G !!!!!

That is an interesting Jeep , and set of numbers.

I would agree with Seth, use a number, and the body number to get an good idea for the serial number possibility.

I wonder if the top rail number number also might be the serial number ?

The good thing is there are many Italian G members, so maybe they will be able to answer the question pretty easily.
They would also know if Italy kept sales records of their jeeps like the British did .


Hear is a pic that I like to post when jeeps from Italy come up on the G, in case you haven't seen it before.

The article was in a May 7th , 1945 US Newspaper, mentioning a news report about the USA selling jeeps and trucks to Italy, who then would resell to Italian private groups, including farmers and others to help rebuild the country , from all damage around Italy and Sicily !

Here is a link to another group of Italian Jeep owners :

viewtopic.php?t=27576


Best Regards,
Ray

[James Fraser]

Dear Ray and Seth
Many thanks for your answers - I hadn’t thought that either stamping could be (or contain) the actual Willys serial number.
It is an interesting project and I can’t wait to get it finished. I will post more images in due course.
Thanks again.
James

[James Fraser]

Sorry, I forgot to answer that the body is no longer on the chassis so no PAL nuts.

Here are some photos of the transfer case. I don't know if the number (J230263) ties in with a mid 1944 date.
Notice the divots in the casing where a large calibre bullet hit it - there are other bullet holes in the bodywork and one of the seats. Quite sobering really.

James

[sjalbert]

Sorry, I forgot to answer that the body is no longer on the chassis so no PAL nuts.

Here are some photos of the transfer case. I don't know if the number (J230263) ties in with a mid 1944 date.
Notice the divots in the casing where a large calibre bullet hit it - there are other bullet holes in the bodywork and one of the seats. Quite sobering really.

James

Transfer case serial number seems a little earlier to me. My transfer case s/n J282483 has a 6 - 27 casting date.

[PopsDudley]

I though I had the only Jeep from the Italian Army! Mine is a 1945 and it also has the engraved number on top of the rail - I'll have to search for the other one. Mine still has the tag from Milan. Was brought back to Miami by the son of the family that bought it as Army surplus - Italian Army.
It has a great paint job but I am having to have the motor rebuilt.

[PopsDudley]

I though I had the only Jeep from the Italian Army! Mine is a 1945 and it also has the engraved number on top of the rail - I'll have to search for the other one. Mine still has the tag from Milan. Was brought back to Miami by the son of the family that bought it as Army surplus - Italian Army.
It has a great paint job but I am having to have the motor rebuilt.
pd

[James Fraser]

Dear PD
Would love to see some photos of your Jeep and the numbers. Where is (was) the rebuild tag located? On the frame or the body?
Best
James

[PopsDudley]

Frame. All my picture files are too large to post.

[dpcd67]

You have to resize your pictures before G forum will accept them.

[Kilroy]

James Fraser, hi!
I suggest you post your question here viewforum.php?f=74, where somebodey may be able to give you a specific answer. Unfortunately, I have never seen the style of numbers your jeep shows (I am referring to the longer one). The other one is probably the civilian registration number the jeep received once sold to the public.

Just for your info. Discounting vehicles which may have been imported to Italy already from foreign civilian markets, two sources of wartime US jeeps existed in Italy for civilians early on:

the first one was the State administered sale of surplus jeeps which had been officially abandoned by the Allies at war's end, through ARAR (Azienda Rilievo Alienazione Residuati - which means surplus collection and sales administration). It operated from 1945 to 1958, and the jeeps it sold were completely unmodified from how the vehicle was when in use by the US or Commonwealth forces - usually US.

The second source was jeeps put into service by the Italian Armed Forces or by the Italian Police after the war. These were placed on the civilan market starting in the 1960's, and almost always had been rather extensively modified during their service life in Italy.

But as I said, post your question there, probably someone has the answer (and English is spoken).

cheers