Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
- YLG80
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Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
In 1983, when I've restarted for the first time since years the jeep of my father-in-law (now my jeep ) there was an annoying problem.
The second gear was always shifting out to neutral when accelerating.
I have disassembled the gear box cover and to me the guide plate was worn and was the cause of that problem.
At that time, I've bought a NOS gearbox cover, and the problem was indeed fixed.
Now years after, I've decided to restore my GPW F-marked gearbox cover and replace the guide plate.
I take that opportunity to show you the difference between a worn plate and a new one, side by side.
I have also spent some time to make a drawing that would help you when inspecting your gearbox cover.
I believe that this small hidden part is very important and needs more attention.
What are we talking about?
And more specifically that part on the other side:
Here is the side-by-side comparison to show how worn was the shifter guide plate in my jeep gearbox cover
It's difficult to see, but the top side of the plate has also many burrs and the two rivets had been hammered during the previous jeep life.
You can also see that the gap between the ears had grown a lot....
Here is the drawing that I have made by measuring two different brand new plates. It's even in fraction of inches for you !
For some reason there are slight differences with the JeepDraw drawing, but I believe that its not very critical.
I would advise to carefully de-burr the new plate, to make slight chamfers in the plate cutting area and to improve the surface finish where the shift lever will touch the plate.
It will help to preserve the shift lever tip.
Yves
[Edited on May 7th, 2021 - incorrect dimension +missing slot width on drawing - drawing replaced in rev4]
The second gear was always shifting out to neutral when accelerating.
I have disassembled the gear box cover and to me the guide plate was worn and was the cause of that problem.
At that time, I've bought a NOS gearbox cover, and the problem was indeed fixed.
Now years after, I've decided to restore my GPW F-marked gearbox cover and replace the guide plate.
I take that opportunity to show you the difference between a worn plate and a new one, side by side.
I have also spent some time to make a drawing that would help you when inspecting your gearbox cover.
I believe that this small hidden part is very important and needs more attention.
What are we talking about?
And more specifically that part on the other side:
Here is the side-by-side comparison to show how worn was the shifter guide plate in my jeep gearbox cover
It's difficult to see, but the top side of the plate has also many burrs and the two rivets had been hammered during the previous jeep life.
You can also see that the gap between the ears had grown a lot....
Here is the drawing that I have made by measuring two different brand new plates. It's even in fraction of inches for you !
For some reason there are slight differences with the JeepDraw drawing, but I believe that its not very critical.
I would advise to carefully de-burr the new plate, to make slight chamfers in the plate cutting area and to improve the surface finish where the shift lever will touch the plate.
It will help to preserve the shift lever tip.
Yves
[Edited on May 7th, 2021 - incorrect dimension +missing slot width on drawing - drawing replaced in rev4]
Last edited by YLG80 on Thu May 06, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ford GPW 1943 - Louisville - DoD 12-7-43
serial 164794
serial 164794
- YLG80
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
And here is the drawing in metric, for the people in the tiny part of the world using the metric system .
Yves
[Last edited on May 7th, 2021 - drawing in metric updated to rev 4 - added missing slot width of 7.9mm]
Yves
[Last edited on May 7th, 2021 - drawing in metric updated to rev 4 - added missing slot width of 7.9mm]
Last edited by YLG80 on Fri May 07, 2021 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Thanks Yves,
I'm going to have to inspect mine. I occasionally have experienced that problem. replacing a worn plate is a lot simpler then r&r'ng the transmission for a full rebuild if it'll solve the problem.
I'm going to have to inspect mine. I occasionally have experienced that problem. replacing a worn plate is a lot simpler then r&r'ng the transmission for a full rebuild if it'll solve the problem.
Seth
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1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=225199
MVPA # 8587
Com / Inst. SMEL
CFII - ASEL
KI5LYB
Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Hi Yves,
Great drawings! Yes a vital piece to a properly shifting T-84. Certainly overlooked by many (as it is not a mechanical part, it tends to get overlooked).
Great drawings! Yes a vital piece to a properly shifting T-84. Certainly overlooked by many (as it is not a mechanical part, it tends to get overlooked).
- YLG80
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Thanks Seth and "42 Peep",
Yes that little part is often overlooked also because it's riveted.
That's also the reason why I didn't restore the gearbox cover earlier .
Although I've seen a perfect repair with two screws with countersunk head.
With the next macro photo, it's more evident to understand why the second gear was getting out during acceleration.
Riveting is also the reason why I didn't restore my gearbox cover earlier .
But now I have to go forward with the two rivets !
Yves
Yes that little part is often overlooked also because it's riveted.
That's also the reason why I didn't restore the gearbox cover earlier .
Although I've seen a perfect repair with two screws with countersunk head.
With the next macro photo, it's more evident to understand why the second gear was getting out during acceleration.
Riveting is also the reason why I didn't restore my gearbox cover earlier .
But now I have to go forward with the two rivets !
Yves
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Can someone explain how being worn affects popping out of gear? Mine pops out only under deacceleration. The plate was replaced with a new one, the theory right now is the slots aren't deep enough for positive engagement of the shift rail balls.
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
And the guide plate slot slope helps the shifter can tip to get out ...as shown on the macro photo.
I don't remember if the problem happened also during deceleration. Sorry, it was in 1983 !
I'm pretty sure that the shifter cane tip has also to be inspected and perhaps repaired.
Here is a picture showing how it should be:
As usual there are two parts playing a role in that game.
Yves
Last edited by YLG80 on Fri May 07, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Yves,
Excellent information. THanks.
Excellent information. THanks.
Oz
Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Nice drawing Yves!
I'd be happy to offer my initials for CK once DRWG. COMPLETED.
Best, -=BK
I'd be happy to offer my initials for CK once DRWG. COMPLETED.
Best, -=BK
Bill Kish
Millerton, NY
GPW 59058, USA 20137991, DOD 8-27-42
'52 M37 8008286
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Millerton, NY
GPW 59058, USA 20137991, DOD 8-27-42
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Thanks for Check and Approval !
Yves
Last edited by YLG80 on Fri May 07, 2021 12:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Thanks Yves! Excellent post and great information.
Bill H.
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"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof
1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715
2 Timothy 3:1-5
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
The first published guide plate drawing in fraction of inches was incorrect
However the same drawing in metric is correct.
There was some problem with the Trimble Sketchup conversion from metric to inches.
It seems that it was converting the displayed value and not the stored value which is exactly 9.5250mm or equal to 3/8in.
There is an error in the distance between the two fingers, ½’’ should be 3/8’’.
Likely a rounding issue on the displayed value…don't know.
What is strange is that the 3D perspective view on the right is OK with the 3/8’’ inches distance between the fingers .
The drawing is up to date in the first post (rev4). Added also the slot width (5/16') which was missing.
Thanks to the attentive reader for his remarks !
Yves
[Edited on May 7th, 2021 - removed new drawing from this post and updated the drawing in the 1st post]
However the same drawing in metric is correct.
There was some problem with the Trimble Sketchup conversion from metric to inches.
It seems that it was converting the displayed value and not the stored value which is exactly 9.5250mm or equal to 3/8in.
There is an error in the distance between the two fingers, ½’’ should be 3/8’’.
Likely a rounding issue on the displayed value…don't know.
What is strange is that the 3D perspective view on the right is OK with the 3/8’’ inches distance between the fingers .
The drawing is up to date in the first post (rev4). Added also the slot width (5/16') which was missing.
Thanks to the attentive reader for his remarks !
Yves
[Edited on May 7th, 2021 - removed new drawing from this post and updated the drawing in the 1st post]
Last edited by YLG80 on Fri May 07, 2021 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Yves,
They just changed the editing time limit to one week. If that's retroactive you might be able to edit that post.
They just changed the editing time limit to one week. If that's retroactive you might be able to edit that post.
Seth
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1944 MB 349858, 20620361
1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=225199
MVPA # 8587
Com / Inst. SMEL
CFII - ASEL
KI5LYB
Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known
******
1944 MB 349858, 20620361
1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=225199
MVPA # 8587
Com / Inst. SMEL
CFII - ASEL
KI5LYB
Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known
- YLG80
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Hi Seth,
Thanks for that information. I wasn’t aware of that.
But that’s a very reasonable decision. Many thanks addressed to the board!
I have tidied up my posts! (drawings in rev4)
Thanks.
Yves
Thanks for that information. I wasn’t aware of that.
But that’s a very reasonable decision. Many thanks addressed to the board!
I have tidied up my posts! (drawings in rev4)
Thanks.
Yves
Ford GPW 1943 - Louisville - DoD 12-7-43
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- YLG80
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Re: Shifter guide plate, an often ignored small part
Found on eBay.
Why not, if it works?
It was the common fate of our jeeps: it had to run with no waste of time.
My jeep was no exception to this rule.
The "useless" and annoying parking brake lever, w/o cable and all that stuff, was welded in order not to fall on the ground under the jeep .
For sure, this guy was afraid to loose the guide plate.
Yves
Why not, if it works?
It was the common fate of our jeeps: it had to run with no waste of time.
My jeep was no exception to this rule.
The "useless" and annoying parking brake lever, w/o cable and all that stuff, was welded in order not to fall on the ground under the jeep .
For sure, this guy was afraid to loose the guide plate.
Yves
Ford GPW 1943 - Louisville - DoD 12-7-43
serial 164794
serial 164794
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