What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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warbrds
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by warbrds » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:13 pm

dpcd67 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:14 am
I keep saying this but no one is listening; Where are all the restoration candidates going to come from, in ten-twenty years? They are practically gone now. After all, the "hobby" is not just parades and reenactments. It is fully 50%, the work (restoration) to make something historical, like new again. Meaning WW2 vehicles; this is the MB/GPw forum.
At least to me, that is it.
So, the hobby will evolve from guys like us doing all the hard work, and future rich collectors buying them up at estate sales and never driving them. I have yet to see anyone's kid, around here, who wants old jeeps and Dodges.
And Ok, you "give" a 25 year old a Mint condition jeep; free. They will love it. Then what?
What is a carburetor?
I agree, it is going to be way to difficult to find originals, the MB's and CJ2's I have owned were not garage, parade queens. I did not agonize and lose sleep over the wrong bolt or washer, that NO ONE, would ever see.
After helping restore warbirds, P-51, F-86, F4U, etc, the main them was enjoy it and use it. It was ment to fly, drive, etc. Not be a hanger queen that never sees the light of day.

And yup, most young folks don't have a clue of a carburetor, distributor, magneto, etc are, let alone adjust, tune, etc....

My 2 cents worth


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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by John Neuenburg » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:43 pm

dpcd67 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:39 am
Tell me where the WW2 jeep restoration candidates are, even now, and where will they come from in 20 years. Everyone is ignoring that simple fact. I keep hearing that they are and will be "out there". Not from where I sit, they aren't. Nice ones go to Europe where they still have a sense of WW2 history. That tells me that their supply of restoration candidates is already gone.
Hunting jeeps out there? Seriously?
Not a lot of private vehicles for sale during the virus but what about these MBs? Current or recent online ads. Advertised prices shown:
MB San Diego V6 6500.jpg
$6500
MB CA 7000.jpg
$7000
Slatty, tubs, parts 4000.jpg
$4000

Not WWII but always more M38/ M38A1 out there. Good military projects:
M38A1 Iowa offers.jpg
Offers
m38A1 FL 13500.jpg
$13500
m38a1 AZ 10500.jpg
$10500
M38a1 10900.jpg
$10900
m38 roller MO 1400.jpg
$1400 roller
m38 no engine 3000.jpg
$3000 no engine
m38a1 M) 5750.jpg
$5750

I didn't bother with any above $14K.
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by warbrds » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:52 pm

Prices to high, especialy considering the economic situation right now.

As I said before, everyone thinks they have the last one on earth, the last part on earth, made from unobtanium.

People need to get realistic in their prices, or they will own them for a long time, and bought for pennys in the dollar at the estate sale. Heirs don't car about a dusty waxed coverd box, or a rusty jeep chassis

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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by Ed Roberts » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:01 pm

Alright. I'll re-consider my decision to be buried in my Jeep when I croak. That'll leave another one out there for a future generation. Willing to do my part for the hobby and humanity. Sacrifice is a noble thing.

Stay safe all, Eddie (Not goin' nowhere no time soon)
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by Ron D » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 pm

I think one of the problems with being realistic about prices is that the Government is busy de-valuing every dollar in existence every time they fire up the printing presses for yet another free give-away never mentioned in the Constitution. And they've been doing it for most of a hundred years now. Don't think that matters? Believe what you will. It makes every dollar in your pocket really only worth about a dime, and I think people take this into account when selling anything (even if they don't realize it), and especially when the interweb (the holy grail of information nowadays) tells them they have the last one. There are some exceptions between real people like those in this hobby seriously, and I'm thankful for that....including our great parts vendors and sponsors!

I don't think buying used cars, any used car, has changed much since the first one. Now that the cars made today are practically disposable in favor of crumple zone safety, maybe the real steel cars, jeeps, and trucks will fare better, all the way into a museum after you can't but gasoline anymore. Which might not be that far off if the Government runs it. Like always, the rule remains: better do your homework, look closely, test drive it, and hang on to your wallet. :D
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by jnissen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Were just the present owners of these vehicles. The reality is we all age and eventually these vehicles will get passed along to new owners. Some of them will have zero idea how to maintain a MV and others who will cherish them.

Future generations will have to learn all this stuff over again. It’s just the way life works. Luckily good YouTube videos, documentaries, books, etc... document the vehicles and the people that built them. I say the futures never been brighter!


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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by signsup » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:54 pm

For what it's worth, when I look at our club membership, it falls into the old 80/20 rule. About 20 percent of our members are active restorers or flippers or actively maintain their own vehicles. But about 80 percent take their vehicles to the other 20 percent when a light bulb goes out or they can't lay rubber when they hit the brakes.
So, if military vehicles do indeed "run out" it appears that 80 of the current guys in the hobby will still drive around and display their vehicles. I know our bias is slanted because most guys on this forum are the hands on guys, not the "where do I take my jeep to get the oil changed" guys.

I am wondering if anyone has actively tried to sel a vehicle in the past 30 days and can chime in here as to response, price, activity, etc. I am predicting a slow down and drop in prices from last year. Just how long until they rebound? MJO
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by northcoastsailor » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:58 pm

I was one of those young guys who didn't know anything about distributors, or carbs, or tuning a gas engine. I had avoided gas engines because I hated working on modern cars, having to remove half the engine bay to do anything slightly invasive.

What I do know how to do is research, especially on the Internet. I can find original jeep manuals, YouTube tutorials, forum posts, general "how does X work" pages, and any other information I may want to learn. Just because we didn't grow up with it doesn't mean we can't learn. It takes an interest and a willingness. I had read over the applicable TMs from Jeep draw and the Universal CJ manual before I even owned a jeep. Thanks to Scoutpilot and Greendot on youtube, I can tune a carb to modern fuels. Thanks to a variety of websites, I have rebuilt a distributor. Heck, I've even got good old fashioned books.

Also, judging by many posts on here, some older folk don't seem to know how to tune an engine or wire a jeep either.
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by northcoastsailor » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:03 pm

signsup wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:54 pm
I am wondering if anyone has actively tried to sel a vehicle in the past 30 days and can chime in here as to response, price, activity, etc. I am predicting a slow down and drop in prices from last year. Just how long until they rebound? MJO
I am currently selling an 02' Jeep Liberty through my father in law since I'm out of the country. He says there has been active interest, until they realize it has 280,000 miles. I anticipate people might need cheap cars in the coming months if they can't make payments on the ones they have now.
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:00 am

All non essential/recreational goods are down right now for obvious reasons; they will come back up at some point in the future; we are in a recession/depression now. Except guns; business is booming.
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by Dawgman » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:36 pm

dpcd67 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:26 am
You got the best jeep; an M38.
For me, the whole idea is not just owning a vehicle; anyone with more can buy one; it is the actual restoration process; the parts, the craftsmanship, welding, machine work, the studying of all the references, etc. Once I do one, I am no longer interested in it; store it and move on to the next one.
As I said, there are few WW2 restoration candidates left so someone with my motivation can't possibly enter the hobby. All he or she can do is buy, or be given, one already restored.
Unless you have the passion for it, you /they, won't appreciate it and it won't last long.
WW2; wasn't that when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I just don’t understand what you are talking about. I mean, look at the for sale board of this forum and there are always 3 or 4 available MB/GPW candidates waiting for restoration. Check the Facebook forums and you will find WW2 halftrack, scout cars, armored cars, and cargo trucks available and waiting to be restored regularly. The parts for halftracks and M8/M20 armored cars are fairly common. They just need the motivated mechanically inclined man or woman to tackle them. I joined this hobby when I was 16 in 1986. I’ve restored ww2 Vehichles since then because I find it rewarding to turn a pile of rust and junk into something useable and beautiful, regardless of whether I get recognition or not. I just know that my 7 year old daughter loves riding in and helping me with the old Ww2 military jeeps and restoring my scout car, and states that she is keeping my MBs and GPWs when I kick the bucket!
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by Diesel Dave » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:34 am

I’m afraid it’s already a rich mans hobby over the pond. The Europeans are willing to pay over inflated prices for “our” jeeps making them too expensive for most of us. I personally have lost 2 different slat grill projects to “Johnny come lately” Brits who jumped in after I’d agreed to buy and offered more than the already high asking price. Sour grapes? Maybe a little.But I think most get the point.

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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:57 am

I don't get Facebook so I can't see anything there.
As for restoration candidates, remember, we are talking about the Future (the premise of the original question). They have to be cheap for me, because as you know, it takes another $10k to restore one.
Fact is that I see very few restoration candidates now, and in 10 years, call me and tell me about how many there are. The only ones I see here are a GPW for $10K and an MB with a V6.
Data points of one, and a few good examples do not make a trend. The overall trend is not going the way we would want it to.
If I am wrong, call me in ten years and we will talk about it.
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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by Cal.Bar » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:06 am

Dawgman wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:36 pm
dpcd67 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:26 am
You got the best jeep; an M38.
For me, the whole idea is not just owning a vehicle; anyone with more can buy one; it is the actual restoration process; the parts, the craftsmanship, welding, machine work, the studying of all the references, etc. Once I do one, I am no longer interested in it; store it and move on to the next one.
As I said, there are few WW2 restoration candidates left so someone with my motivation can't possibly enter the hobby. All he or she can do is buy, or be given, one already restored.
Unless you have the passion for it, you /they, won't appreciate it and it won't last long.
WW2; wasn't that when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I just don’t understand what you are talking about. I mean, look at the for sale board of this forum and there are always 3 or 4 available MB/GPW candidates waiting for restoration. Check the Facebook forums and you will find WW2 halftrack, scout cars, armored cars, and cargo trucks available and waiting to be restored regularly. The parts for halftracks and M8/M20 armored cars are fairly common. They just need the motivated mechanically inclined man or woman to tackle them. I joined this hobby when I was 16 in 1986. I’ve restored ww2 Vehichles since then because I find it rewarding to turn a pile of rust and junk into something useable and beautiful, regardless of whether I get recognition or not. I just know that my 7 year old daughter loves riding in and helping me with the old Ww2 military jeeps and restoring my scout car, and states that she is keeping my MBs and GPWs when I kick the bucket!
I have to appreciate your optimism if not foresight. You must be sitting on quite a pile of parts since while there are a (few) rehab projects for sale at any one time (over the ENTIRE country), and parts, especially for the M-8s and Half tracks are FAR from "common". Tracks? MAYBE one producer out there making LIMITED runs. The half track boards and here on the G have more ads looking for parts than there are parts to sell. Some of the Armor guys wait years is not DECADES to find all the parts they need to complete a single restoration. That process is only getting worse every single year. The call of the question was the state of the hobby in the future. Well, in the future, we all have to agree that the future calls for fewer OEM parts and fewer restoration projects within the means of all but the richest among us. Sad but inexorably true.

Much like the interest young girls show in working on cars with their fathers (once they discover boys) our hobby is ephemeral. And, given the number of women in our hobby is nearly ZERO, I'll play the odds and tell you to enjoy spending time with her NOW because life WILL move on and we all know the odds of her having a life-long desire (and ability) to maintain WWII aged vehicles (even though I'm sure she will ALWAYS love her father for sharing his hobby with her).

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Re: What Lies Ahead For The Hobby?

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:45 am

Case in point is my own daughter; when she was 9 to 12 or so, she would work on vehicles with me and in fact there is an article in the Power Wagon Advertiser in Sep 99 about her helping restore a WM300. Titled, "Dad's Little Helper" and her picture is on the back cover. We used to go to the PW rally in Fairfield every year.
Now, not so much; and does she want to own or drive an old vehicle?
You already know the answer to that.
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