Oak Wood filler in bumper

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri May 18, 2018 8:22 pm

x2 on that Farrell.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by OldPappy » Sat May 19, 2018 6:25 am

Interesting topic, as I will soon be making a wood filler for my bumper.

I am a very experienced wood worker, and decided to make my own rather than pay $80 for half a 2X4.

I am also experienced with Linseed Oil on rifle stocks. There is an old saying about rubbing in the linseed oil on a rifle stock. "Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year for life.

It was indeed used for centuries on rifle stocks, but it does have some drawbacks. It doesn't seal the wood very well, and is a magnet for dirt which is part of why it turns black. I don't think it is a good choice as a wood preservative on something which will be exposed to the elements.

For a show vehicle that seldom gets driven in the rain, and mud it doesn't matter much what is used, but I won't use it on the bumper filler for my Jeep.

I am painting mine OD, and will use an Epoxy based primer, and then a good single stage enamel paint. (I intend to use Gillispie Coating Products OD paint). Same thing I am going to paint the rest of the Jeep with.

Some woods have much better water resistance than others. Cedar, Cypress, and Black Locust fence posts last many years in the ground, so I'll use one of those woods.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Al Rains » Sat May 19, 2018 6:34 am

Thanks Farrell, Is it safe to apply a sealer to the wood prior to painting it OD or would this cause the paint to peel later on?
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by dpcd67 » Sat May 19, 2018 7:06 am

If you read my earlier post I always seal the wood I use, and on Dodges there is a lot of it, with either Thompsons water sealer, or spar varnish. Then paint it OD. You can also paint the OD directly on the wood but it soaks in so two or 3 coats has to be applied. Do Not use linseed oil; it is not really a sealer. Sure, for wood stored indoors and not left out in the elements, it works, but it is not a good substance for protecting wood. Unless it has been made into a modern finish with dryers, etc.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Farrell Fox » Sun May 20, 2018 9:04 am

I also seal all of my wood products prior to painting. Late last year, I sealed and painted the wood rack on my water trailer, and after a dozen heavy rain storms, it still looks like I painted it yesterday.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Michael O. » Sun May 20, 2018 9:53 am

x3 on Farrell's last post. I've pretreated my wood filler and will be overpainting it OD when I touch up paint my chassis.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Ben Dover » Sun May 20, 2018 9:54 am

The wood on my MV's have withstood the test of time.
I sealed the mix of new Ash, Maple and Oak CCKW Troop Rack boards that were milled in 1985 with two treatments of a 50/50 mix of Raw Linseed Oil and Turpentine.. The preparation was done on warm sunny days, 24 hr between coats. Two coats of Gillespie 2430 OD SG enamel were applied by professional spray gun. The wood and its' end grain after 33 years still appears as fresh as if it were done yesterday.
The NOS MB Bumper Filler was installed after two or 3 brushed on coats of 50/50 Raw Linseed Oil and Turpentine and left in its' natural finish. It does get an occasional brushed on touch up of Raw Linseed Oil/Turpentine mix and still looks great after 40+ years
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by TonyStandefer » Sun May 20, 2018 12:34 pm

You guys are over thinking it, my bumper filler I have had for 20 years, just paint it every few years as needed, no sealer or preservative, most of us don't live in the jungle and our jeeps are not seeing service use
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Mark Tombleson » Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Joel, you have a filler made out of the wrong wood and no preservative & sealer!

Raw Linseed Oil is not listed in the paint specifications for the MB and it is not listed in the Ford drawing GPW-17751.

You may get by with what you have done for motor pool class... maybe.

This treatment of the wood would not be acceptable for Restored Class no matter how many time you come back to the issue. Just because you do it... and done so for years does not make it correct.

This thread Farrell already posted makes it clear. viewtopic.php?f=69&t=294048&hilit=Wood+filler&start=30
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Ben Dover » Sun May 20, 2018 3:17 pm

The Army stocked Raw Linseed Oil as a wood preservative since hector was a pup. The finish paint used on a factory new MB was not a wood preservative or sealer. For cleaning and preserving there are manuals listed TM9-850, and SNL K1. are good WWII sources of information on the treatment of wood. Am aware of the document used for pre treating the Bumper Filler, and am also sure it was not done, ever, after it left the factory. I probably could take a core sample of my Wood Filler and send it to a lab for chemical analysis. My old chemical laboratory could probably do it for a fee.
Am sure that the Poplar used to manufacture the factory packaged A-1147 Bumper Filler was approved for use somewhere during the contracting for materials such Bumper Fillers and Hat Channel fillers. There must be a Gov't Inspector's Manual that the Willys Gov't inspector had during WWII.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Farrell Fox » Sun May 20, 2018 3:51 pm

Ben Dover wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:17 pm
The Army stocked Raw Linseed Oil as a wood preservative since hector was a pup. The finish paint used on a factory new MB was not a wood preservative or sealer. For cleaning and preserving there are manuals listed TM9-850, and SNL K1. are good WWII sources of information on the treatment of wood.
Am sure that the Poplar used to manufacture the factory packaged A-1147 Bumper Filler was approved for use somewhere during the contracting for materials such Bumper Fillers and Hat Channel fillers. There must be a Gov't Inspector's Manual that the Willys Gov't inspector had during WWII.
There must be a pot of gold waiting for me somewhere, if only someone else would go find it and bring it to me....

The fact of the matter is that Poplar is not an approved type of material used in manufacturing the wood filler, and wood fillers were not delivered untreated, and were not treated with linseed oil. It sounds more like you have an older reproduction part, and are either unwittingly convinced you have an original, or you are just being dishonest about what you actually have in order to claim you have an NOS part. In any case, even if it were an NOS part from Willys Overland stock (which you cannot prove that it was) it is not representative of a FACTORY installed part. At best, it would be considered a motor-pool replacement part.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Ben Dover » Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 pm

My remarks are about a NOS Willys replacement A-1147 Bumper Filler that is made from Poplar. The only proof being offered is from a partial Ford GPW 17751 Drawing that indicates the approved GPW wood source is Oak or Yellow Birch. What does the rest of that drawing say?
Until the Willys A-1147 Drawing surfaces there is no proof that Willys did not use wood sourced from another tree species. It is a well known fact that the Willys Bumper Filler and GPW Bumper Filler are dimensionally different and manufactured using different patterns. Until the Willys drawing surfaces, one cannot say for sure that Poplar was not an approved source for the A-1147 Willys product.

Am confident that there is more to the Willys choice of wood as they (Willys) were using Poplar in the Hat Channels.

Remember, Ford did not build their GPW using the same drawings as the MB there are differences.
Last edited by Ben Dover on Mon May 21, 2018 7:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Farrell Fox » Sun May 20, 2018 8:15 pm

Ben Dover wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 pm
there is no proof that Willys did not use wood sourced from another tree species.
The absurdity of that statement is truly outstanding. Once again, we have Joel taking an otherwise interesting topic, and turning it into a quest to prove he has the only G503 parts known to the hobby to be one-off varriances of Government specifications. The box must have contained a 1945 dated note that read, "specially made for Joel". I'm sure you have a copy of that note as well? You can't prove they didn't type that note, so it must be true.
Last edited by Farrell Fox on Mon May 21, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Farrell Fox » Mon May 21, 2018 7:44 am

In response to Joel's edit 24 hours later.
Ben Dover wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 pm
Am confident that there is more to the Willys choice of wood as they (Willys) were using Poplar in the Hat Channels.
Then prove it.


BTW, Willys didn't build their bodies. American Central Manufacturing did....
Ben Dover wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 pm
Remember, Ford did not build their GPW using the same drawings as the MB there are differences.
..... and so what? Untreated Poplar is still not prescribed in the wood filler drawing.

This is still all moot, as the topic of this thread is not why Joel's part should be considered original NOS, but what to finish the wood filler with. The simple answer is a wood sealer with a top coat of olive drab paint.
Last edited by Farrell Fox on Mon May 21, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Oak Wood filler in bumper

Post by Ben Dover » Mon May 21, 2018 9:19 am

I do not know that my Poplar Filler has not been treated, one would believe so if it was a factory supplied part. I do know that I gave it the Linseed Oil treatment40+ years ago and opted to leave it unpainted. I have seen a lot of Surplus MB's during my 7 Decades of ties to the Jeep and surplus parts business and some we salvaged back in the postwar surplus days had similar color wood fillers as the Poplar one I have. There is a difference in the color of Oak Yellow Birch and Poplar no matter the age. I will attempt a pic of my bare bumper filler from behind the bumper today or tomorrow.
And remember that no Willys Drawing for the A-1147 as supplied by Willys has ever surfaced, what Willys may have used is still up in the Air.
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