rear main seal info

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
Post Reply
Chuckman84
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:19 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

rear main seal info

Post by Chuckman84 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:46 pm

ok, Ive trolled and trolled and trolled, but cannot find DEFINITIVE information on what to do about a rear main seal in a 45 GPW- and where to source them from. Can someone steer me to a correct source so that my little buddy wont be piddling everywhere we park?


PLEASE, I beg of you
83 CJ7 full-bore rock crawler
53 CJ3A farm/hunting rig
45 GPW being restored

User avatar
tamnalan
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6137
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SW Oregon
Contact:

Re: sticky request : rear main seal info

Post by tamnalan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:28 pm

I believe the consensus right now in the US is to use a rope seal. Felpro makes a rope seal kit that Ron sells for about $30. I don't believe Ron sells any wiper or lip-type seals. My motor is apart and I intend to use one of Ron's rope seals.

I hear our European friends have access to a nice lip-type seal made or marketed by Payen - I tried to source one a couple of weeks ago with no luck.

More consensus is to avoid the wiper seals recently made by Victor -- bearing part number 800093. If you do elect to use a wiper seal (Brent Mullins was recently selling some NOS ones)... then first measure your crankshaft's seal contact area diameter - something like 2.312" max will work. Use this type seal with caution! Just make sure your crank still spins easily after the rear main cap and wiper seal are installed and you should be ok. Ben Dover notes that a whole bunch of these wiper seals were successfully used for many years in jeep motors. This wiper seal is what most of the aftermarket jeep parts outlets will try to sell you.

Edit: here's the crank dimension. Cuz posted it last December.

Image
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939

dpcd67
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6352
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:41 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: sticky request : rear main seal info

Post by dpcd67 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 am

Yeah, I have only used rope seals in all the engines I have built; flathead Fords, Dodges and L134s. You have to fit them right and tight and then they will work fine. I am getting ready to build an engine for my Barracuda and even that has a rope seal. I am very suspicious of that new fangled overhead valve thing though.
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch

User avatar
wo2jeeper
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: rear main seal info

Post by wo2jeeper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:33 am

The Payen seal you can get through http://www.staman.nl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . This is best avaible. Ropes are so 1940's ;-)

User avatar
artificer
- R.A.E.M.E -
Posts: 13577
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: rear main seal info

Post by artificer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:10 pm

1. The Payen style has been used with excellent results [offsetting the ends is easy to do & recommended].
2. Nothing wrong with the rope type as long as fitted properly like these guys do in the following clip....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQWlnvAIbI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3. I have ordered individual parts in the past & the Victor has been sent.
They fit up TOO tight & this can't be adjusted.
I returned 3 in Military type packaging because the sealing edge portion was not finished properly & they didn't look
right
The Victor's that come in overhaul gasket kits & are discarded.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


User avatar
wo2jeeper
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: rear main seal info

Post by wo2jeeper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:48 pm

Payen instals in seconds, ropes in the film not. And when the rope is installed incorrect or bad quality you get my problems and find rope particals all around your engine. Sure there are enough that find rope seals give best results but that is only due to bad other seals as the Victor branded. When all was at Payen quality we all should buy these.
Last edited by wo2jeeper on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
artificer
- R.A.E.M.E -
Posts: 13577
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: rear main seal info

Post by artificer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:09 pm

The Payen seals are a lip type seal so there is little friction & heat generated, with good sealing.
The only proviso is that the journal the seal runs on needs to be in good shape.
It is a good idea to use liberal assembly lube on the journal when fitting.

The Victor is a wide 'wiper' seal that offers considerable friction & heat especially when they are too tight, as they normally are.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

dct
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:43 am

Re: rear main seal info

Post by dct » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:22 pm

I tried to find the rear main seal on the Payen website, but couldn't locate it. Does anyone have the part number or the location on the site?

Dan

billybob
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:04 am

Re: rear main seal info

Post by billybob » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:04 pm

The mechanic who installed my crank for me used a rope seal. He said they are by far the best. The way he described the installation process I believe He knows what he was talking about. I don't remember what brand it was, but it was a major brand. Best of luck.

TR BUCK
G-Master Sergeant
G-Master Sergeant
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:24 am
Location: New Englands Left Coast

Re: rear main seal info

Post by TR BUCK » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:41 am

I have NOS rope seals.

$5.00 @set

Rope only no rubber plug

I replace my neopreen seals twice before I settled on the rope,

I have not had a problem since.

User avatar
tamnalan
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6137
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SW Oregon
Contact:

Re: rear main seal info

Post by tamnalan » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:26 pm

Felpro number BS-3165. Includes two ropes and two rubber dowels.
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939

User avatar
Zack Magnusson
G-Captain
G-Captain
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:41 pm
Location: Limestone County, Alabama
Contact:

Re: rear main seal info

Post by Zack Magnusson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:36 am

Toby Wacker's first hand experience with the bad seal in his MA:

viewtopic.php?t=214106

TR BUCK
G-Master Sergeant
G-Master Sergeant
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:24 am
Location: New Englands Left Coast

Re: rear main seal info

Post by TR BUCK » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:58 am

I have some NOS Rope type seals.

$5.00 plus $1.25 shipping

Watch this yutube video for installation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qXo9pW6nEo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
tamnalan
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 6137
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SW Oregon
Contact:

Re: rear main seal info

Post by tamnalan » Mon May 27, 2013 12:19 pm

I bought a couple of sets of NOS wiper seals from Brent Mullins last year. I had my motor out for some valve seats work and decided to try them out. I've now got about 8 hours on them including some Springfield, OH parade time today - no leaks and no problems. My crank's seal diameter measured 2.309" when I installed them.

Image

Image

Image
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939

Fortyeight2A
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 4991
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:40 am
Location: Colorado

Re: rear main seal info

Post by Fortyeight2A » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:38 am

What's the story on that trailer? Have you posted about it somewhere?
Is it true real Jeeps have flat fenders?
Alone cannot you it resist!

Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Paul Bill, r w devon, sam C. and 10 guests