Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:52 pm

[quote="Chuck Lutz"]The isolator for the M38 does not allow for a shim A-1051 under it to raise it for fan clearance....the M38 lists the A-4413 radiator shim under quantity "AS REQUIRED" because the isolator can't have additional shims under it....look at the VEE on the bottom!

This is a change from the WWII jeep in which the A542 and the A7498 are found in the manuals with the A-1051 shim for them and under quantity, the A-1051 says "AS REQ."

The M38 uses a different isolator with a VEE on the bottom which does not utilize the A-1051 shim...therefore if there is a clearance issue with the fan it is solved because they listed the A-4413 Radiator Shim/Pad under quantity "AS REQ.".

While your post WWII manuals for the M38 list the A-4413 under quantity as "AS REQ.".....the WWII manuals for the WWII jeep (which is what we are talking about) list them as "TWO"....and they list the A-1051 Shim for the Isolators as "AS REQ.".

Therefore a GPW mechanic will look into the manuals if he feels the fan and shroud are too close and add shims under the isolators to raise the FAN.....the M38 mechanic will look into HIS manuals and if the fan is too close, he will add shims under the radiator to raise it.

Now the WWII manuals do NOT say to add shims to the radiator for a WWII jeep to increase the clearance, and since you were not in the Army when there were only the G503s, you are confusing the two slightly different ways of solving the same problem....perhaps at Armee Skool they taught you to toss the manuals and do it however, but when I am working on WWII jeeps...I refer to WWII manuals...not something for an M38 or a CJ.

So while you are mistakenly thinking that the WWII jeep and manual call for AS REQ number of shims to raise the radiator....I have to point out that is incorrect. Which is something you won't admit....but by now 99% of the g503 guys understand. If your point was to share the experience of a Bubba vix for a WWII jeep...you have succeeded. If the point of this thread was to illustrate how and why your fan sits too low in a WWII jeep and how to solve the problem...then the rest of those who have posted here have done that long ago....[/quote]
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
NO MISTAKE, Chuck, "AS REQ" IS LISTED IN THE WWII SNL G-503 DATED JANUARY 15, 1944
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:09 pm

The WO A-4413 SHIM is listed in the following WWII G503 manuals ....."TWO"....not "AS REQ."
TM 10-1348 March 1942
TM 10-1348 Sept. 1942
TM 10-1348 March 1943
ORD 9 SNL G-503 Jan 1944
ORD 9 SNL G-503 Feb 1945/Oct 1949

ORD 9 SNL G-503, Group 05-Cooling System (page 71)
FM-GPW-8125-A WO A-4413 SHIM, radiator core to support bracket................2


PS.....TM 9-1803A page 59...
j. Install Radiator......."Place a radiator pad on each of the two radiator mounting brackets....."
Chuck Lutz

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Joe Gopan
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:17 pm

[quote="Chuck Lutz"]The WO A-4413 SHIM is listed in the following WWII G503 manuals [b]....."TWO"....[/b]not [color=#0000FF]"AS REQ."[/color]
TM 10-1348 March 1942
TM 10-1348 Sept. 1942
TM 10-1348 March 1943
ORD 9 SNL G-503 Jan 1944
ORD 9 SNL G-503 Feb 1945/Oct 1949

ORD 9 SNL G-503, Group 05-Cooling System (page 71)
FM-GPW-8125-A WO A-4413 SHIM, radiator core to support bracket................[color=#FF0000][size=150][i][b]2[/b][/i][/size][/color]


PS.....TM 9-1803A page 59...
j. Install Radiator[i]......."Place a radiator pad on each of the two radiator mounting brackets....."[/i][/quote]
________________________________________________
LOOK AGAIN ON PAGE 73, SNL G-503 JANUARY 15, 1944.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:35 pm

A-4413 Rubber Radiator Shim-3/16" Thick
A-4414 Rubber Radiator Shim-1/8" Thick
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:34 am

SNL GROUP 05 - 501 Radiator and Surge Tank (these are used to mount the radiator to the frame)
WO A-4413 "SHIM, radiator to support bracket............(2)

SNL GROUP 18 - 1800 Body Assembly
WO A-4414 "LINER BODY SILL THIN"..................(2)
WO A-4415 "LINER BODY SILL THICK".................(2)
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:48 am

Depends on the Era of the Parts Manuals, they are all universally called Shims, Liners, or Cushions by Willys. You have to check a few more Parts Manuals Chuck. I still have OEM Shims and Liners in the Jeep factory bags that I have used for restorations since the 60's.
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:59 am

I'm more interested in the WWII manuals, the parts used to restore WWII jeeps and the part numbers for WWII jeeps....the M38 and the CJ era is not what the thread is about....

Do you use LINERS in place of SGIMS? If so that is not what Armee Skool taught you to do....they gave you the Manual, taught you how to look up the part you needed, how to fill out the form, where to get the part and...how to install it....they did not have M38 manuals or parts or postwar CJ parts in WWII. Things might have changed between WWII and when you were in the Army....and those who do factory restorations are not likely to pick up an M38 manual, a CJ part or such if they are trying to "restore" to factory specs....

I would imagine your "jeep bags" are not sealed and dated from WWII....more likely from the CJ era when things may have changed (part numbers, shape and sizes of parts, etc.)....you may choose to restore with CJ parts if they are in the "replacement" manual from the 1960s....I would prefer to concentrate on the parts and manuals from WWII.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Marty, SoCal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:37 am

Bringing up an old thread:
A1051 Shim:
https://www.vintagejeeps.com/pc-74-28-m ... a1051.aspx

To me, in Ron's picture, it looks like the length of the shim would be 3-3/4", not 4-3/4" as in Chucks first post:

"The rectangular shim plate is 4 3/4" x 1 3/4" and is 1/8" thick. It has TWO holes that match the bolt holes for the motor mounts themselves."

Can anyone with one handy measure it for me? I need to make a pair 1/4" thick to compensate for the short aftermarket mounts mentioned in this thread.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:13 pm

Marty, I don't have one to check, but you are probably correct....the mounting holes are about 3 1/8" center-to-center so it would seem that this Ford marked one is 3 3/4" in length by 1 3/4" in width.
Front Motor Mount Shims F Marked.jpg
Front Motor Mount Shims F Marked.jpg (215.33 KiB) Viewed 1089 times
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Marty, SoCal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:35 pm

Thanks, I'm not at home, so I couldn't measure the mounts myself.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by USMC1980 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:47 pm

Ebay item no. 171006164995

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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by Marty, SoCal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks for the link. Ron has the same ones for $8 a pair, in stock. I actually need thicker ones, (1/4") so I'm making them myself.
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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by 70th Division » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:32 am

Hello,

This is a great post that needs to be seen again, as many are restoring their jeeps ,
and are not aware of the need for shims under the motor mounts.

I am at this point now, and will be adding the nos shims to my new motor mounts.
Ron carries the mounts and new shims.


Best Regards,
Ray

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Re: Front Motor Mount Shim Specs

Post by 17thAirborne » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:10 am

It was a good read!
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