Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by sjalbert » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:57 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:50 am
You would only be laughed at by someone if you tried to make the 12/42 MB a "factory restoration" because as you know, by then the MBs had a glovebox. So...if you aren't going to restore the 12/42 MB as anything but a "motorpool restoration", then the "early" tub would have been possibly installed on the chassis.

It's just the guys who use post-war CJ parts, GPW parts or wrong for their DOD parts on their MB (or MB parts on their GPW) and attempt to portray the jeep as a "factory restoration" or even as a "motorpool restoration" who get laughed at by those who know better.

If you end up with non-WWII parts and maybe even a CJ motor in that 12/42 MB, then you can't even portray it as a "WWII motorpool restoration". Then it is just a "rebuilt WWII jeep" and its still better than not having one at all...
Chuck you're ignoring documented usage of GPW parts by Willys (i.e. GPW Transmissions in Willy's factory photo's from mid-1944) or a whole bunch of GPW's with Willys frames from late 1942 into early 1943 :)
Seth
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Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:03 am

Seth....about those "Willy's Frames" used on GPWs.....Just curious if the company that supplied the frames to Ford delivered them with the two holes in the left frame horn where Willys mounted the "frame tag"?

Is that a way to differentiate a frame delivered to Willys from one delivered to Ford????
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by sjalbert » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:16 am

I've never seen one in person. That would be a Tom question.
Seth
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Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by rjbeamer » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:29 pm

When Midland delivered the frames to Ford, the holes for the Willys frame tag were on the frame just as if they were going to Willys. Ford just stamped the frame rail instead of using a Willys type tag'

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by Ed Roberts » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:36 pm

Chuck's question is a good one. My GPW #5739 (original data plates) DOD 03-17-42 is a Ford body on a Willys frame. The two holes for the Willys tag are pristine and have never had a tag mounted. Has a Willys engine. Many, many F marked parts. My quest since 1985 (acquired) is locating the frame number to verify the data plate. The reported usual location is negative, even the slightest evidence. The Jeep made it's way back to the US from Norway. (physical evidence). Back on track, glove box or no, go with what you like, have the skill and money to do, put it in gear and enjoy your Jeep. No time like now!
Best Regards, Eddie
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by jeepfinger » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:03 pm

sjalbert wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:57 am
or a whole bunch of GPW's with Willys frames from late 1942 into early 1943
Seth,
Is that a typo? I thought that it was late 41 until around March/April 42 that the Willys frames were used.
Dave
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by sjalbert » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:08 pm

jeepfinger wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:03 pm
sjalbert wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:57 am
or a whole bunch of GPW's with Willys frames from late 1942 into early 1943
Seth,
Is that a typo? I thought that it was late 41 until around March/April 42 that the Willys frames were used.
Dave
Could be a typo. I'm not a Ford guy. I just typed the dates I recalled, but my memory isn't what it used to be.
Seth
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1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497
MVPA # 8587

Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:21 am

GPW factories did not produce any jeeps in 1941, but I believe the Midland/Willys frames were used up into the middle of 1942.

Frame markings can be found HERE:
GPW 106599.jpg
...and a bit further to the rear HERE:
GPW 16046 Louisville.jpg
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by Michael O. » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:25 pm

sjalbert wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:57 am
Chuck you're ignoring documented usage of GPW parts by Willys (i.e. GPW Transmissions in Willy's factory photo's from mid-1944) or a whole bunch of GPW's with Willys frames from late 1942 into early 1943 :)
Those transmission cases you are referring to were not cast by Ford (sub contractor Fairmont Tool or Frank Brothers?) but they do have the GPW part number embossed on them. Fact...GPW marked transmission cases were used in MB production at least in mid 1944, but they are not truly “Ford” cases. I believe Joel Brodd’s MB 354134 has one such transmission case.

What’s this about Ford using Midland Steel frames in late 1942 to early 1943? Do you have evidence to support this statement? The only reference to Midland frames mentioned in Ford Motor Company documents that I have been privy to were the 8,000 Midland frames purchased by Ford for use in First Contract GPWs.
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by Michael O. » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:34 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:03 am
Seth....about those "Willy's Frames" used on GPWs.....Just curious if the company that supplied the frames to Ford delivered them with the two holes in the left frame horn where Willys mounted the "frame tag"?
Chuck, Midland Steel frames used by Ford for GPWs produced during the First Contract do, in fact, have the holes drill for the Willys frame serial number tag...but without the tag, of course.
Michael O’Connell
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1941 WC-4 8668603
1942 MB 111414
1942 GPW 2647
1942 GPW 66380
1943 GPW 104111
1943 GPW 108552 (w/matching motor)
1944 MB 369488
1944 MB 379204 (w/correct SN range motor
1945 MB 422759 (w/factory installed motor MB-563402)

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by r w devon » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:06 am

Mike,
Very interesting about the use of GPW transfer cases on MB 's up to mid 44 .
My early July MB 07/07/44 no. 348262 has a mid June 44 t84 which I assumed was good timing to be original , but a GPW Transfer which I thought must be a replacement . But from what you say it may have been all together from the factory .
Cheers
Richard
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by jkillelea » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:16 am

Just a little visual for all. Here is my Midland Frame which has GPW 1674 stamped on the frame rail. As you can see, it's a Willys style frame and has the two holes for a Willys data plate, which was never attached. This was taken last summer as I removed bubba's welded on bumper. Fortunately the gussets were in usable condition.
front frame rail.jpg
Stay healthy. Stay home. Work on your jeep.
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by jkillelea » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:24 am

Here's a wartime shot in Italy 1944 showing combat (?) soldiers changing a body of an MB. Question: are they removing or installing the body?
Your guess is as good as mine. I think they're installing.
John
1944-03-03-italy-fixing-jeep1.jpg

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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by dpcd67 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:05 am

How do you know they are changing it? Whatever they are doing, they aren't authorized to do it unless they are at third echelon and I am not even sure they can; they do have a wrecker.
Interesting picture though.
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Re: Willys MB Glovebox Neccesary?

Post by jeepfinger » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:09 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:21 am
GPW factories did not produce any jeeps in 1941
Hi Chuck,
Yes I know that, guess that I wasn't too clear what I meant. The frames for the early GPW's were made in 41, I think.
That MB has had a front replacement passenger spring, with a GPW one.
Dave
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GPW 41158 June 19 1942
Bantam T3 9555 1/11/1943 USA 0258448
BSA WDM20 Sept 1940 C4343114

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