Serial numbers and dates

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
Scrumps
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Scrumps » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:15 pm

Hi,

My casting date is 8-17 and my Date of Delivery is 8-24-44.

Yours is 13 days after mine.

There is no direct relationship between engine numbers and chassis numbers as Willy’s engines went into other things like generators.

I’d estimate a DoD around 7th Sept ‘44 and a chassis number around MB37500.

For that date the body number should be around 116000.

It looks like you have a mis-matched body & chassis.

Scrumps

Chuck Lutz
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 pm

Scrumps….if by "chassis number around MB37500" you are indicating what would be stamped on the metal tag affixed to the left frame horn, remember that Willys started with "MB-100001".
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

sjalbert
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by sjalbert » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:59 am

Scrumps probably meant around 375000 and left off a zero :wink:
Seth
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1944 MB 349858, 20620361
1942 MBT 10968 viewtopic.php?f=18&t=149552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1942 MBT 15799, USA 0217497
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Collecting Willys Engine Info. Please send me Engine #, Casting Date & Machining Date if known

Scrumps
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Scrumps » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 am

Hi,

Correct, fat fingers, my MB is 364XXX, hence the 375000(!) estimate.

Scrumps

Pbabau
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Pbabau » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:56 am

Thanks to all for the reply.
If anyone can give some more information it will be apreciated.
Best regards from Portugal


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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by ghiltgen » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:50 pm

What is the number on the tubs toe board gusset, I can't see it very well. Also if you could verify that it is an ACM 2 body tub that's helpful. Either post a side picture or count the holes, the ACM 1 body has 5 circular holes in the toe board gusset, the type 2 has 2 circular holes and an larger oval in the center. I might be able to give you a serial number and date of delivery that's very close based on published original serial numbers from known original jeeps made within the same 6month to one year interval.
I did this for my MB. For example, I made a graph of the body tub number vs the serial number of 10-20 jeeps from the same 6mo-1yr interval and found out it was a straight line or linear relationship. Then I used linear regression to calculate the prob serial number and date of delivery. To check this process I plugged in body tub numbers from jeeps with known serial number and came very close! I can try it for yours if you like but I need the above info.

Greg
ghiltgen
1943 MB, est DOD 4/17/1943
GPW 127386
1948 CJ2A
MVPA member 36543

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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Pbabau » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:04 am

Hello Greg,

Thank´s a lot for your availability, and sorry for my late reply. In the lasts days i was focus in searching parts and find ways of improving things...

In this days i find another thing, i have a "salad" jeep :o , When i get the jeep i search for the frame number as it was a willys, the place were it should be was changed to implemenent the winch so i cannot find it. After reading some more information on internet and finding some parts with the "f" stampped, i search in the place where the GPW should be and bellow some ink layers i found that i have an GPW frame.

The number of the frame is 191391 i think it is more or less from the same date of the willys parts.

The number on the tubs toe board gusset is 38845 and i think it is the one with the oval form so ACM 2 (i will confirm)

So to summarize:
Body number willys: 38845
Engine number Willys: 638632
Frame number GPW: 191391

With this i think it will be difficult to find a number to engrave in the plates of my jeep. When i start with the painting restauration i will search for the numbers on the hood maybe i can find something.

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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Pbabau » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:27 am

ghiltgen wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:50 pm
What is the number on the tubs toe board gusset, I can't see it very well. Also if you could verify that it is an ACM 2 body tub that's helpful. Either post a side picture or count the holes, the ACM 1 body has 5 circular holes in the toe board gusset, the type 2 has 2 circular holes and an larger oval in the center. I might be able to give you a serial number and date of delivery that's very close based on published original serial numbers from known original jeeps made within the same 6month to one year interval.
I did this for my MB. For example, I made a graph of the body tub number vs the serial number of 10-20 jeeps from the same 6mo-1yr interval and found out it was a straight line or linear relationship. Then I used linear regression to calculate the prob serial number and date of delivery. To check this process I plugged in body tub numbers from jeeps with known serial number and came very close! I can try it for yours if you like but I need the above info.

Greg
Hello Greg,
I confirm is ACM 2.

Best regards
Paulo Babau
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Scrumps
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Scrumps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:05 am

Paulo,

I would suggest you don’t have a ‘salad’ jeep.

I think you have an Apr ‘44 GPW which has had an in-service engine change with a later MB unit.

From info I have your frame number and body number both line up as Apr’44.

Scrumps

Pbabau
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Pbabau » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:44 am

Scrumps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:05 am
Paulo,

I would suggest you don’t have a ‘salad’ jeep.

I think you have an Apr ‘44 GPW which has had an in-service engine change with a later MB unit.

From info I have your frame number and body number both line up as Apr’44.

Scrumps
Hello Scrumps,

Are you saying that the body and the frame match each other? i thought the number i have from the body was from a MB, but in fact now that you say that i have seen a lot of screws and other parts with the f stamped.

Can you give me more details?

Best regards

Scrumps
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Scrumps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:34 am

Paulo,

ACM2 bodies were used by both Willy’s & Ford. It was the add on pieces that differ like tool box lids(flat=Willy’s, ribbed =Ford), rear footrests (feet turned under = Ford).

You need to have a look at Jeepdraw, there is a table that shows the different items for each version.

http://jeepdraw.com/PART_COLOURS.htm

You could also look around for many of the Jeep reference books (All American Wonder etc).

Scrumps

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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Pbabau » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:26 am

Hi Scrumps,

Since the beginning i have searched for the differences between willys, GPW and M201, and because the engine is willys i think i put on my mind that this was a complete willys. The most significant difference that was the tool box lid is not there, the place where it should be was changed due to adapt a back seat from other car.

I think i read in some place that the numbers of GPW Match each other, maybe i'm making some confusion. You told that you have more information about the numbers, there is some more information you can share? Is possible to know the number on the hood? What should be the number marked on the hand grove plates?

Many thanks in advance.

My best regards

Scrumps
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by Scrumps » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:00 am

Paulo,

Numbers matching Ford = engine matches frame matches dataplates on the glovebox. The body number doesn’t come into it as they were provided by ACM. The best you can do is match your body number to the same time period as the other parts.

Compare your frame number here:-
https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPGPWSerialnumber.html

With your body number here:-
https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPBodynumbers.html

and you will see they are close. You can try and find your original block, paint yours grey and ignore the willys number or just find a GPW block near yours. Everything else just bolts on.

Hood numbers - unless you can find original paint on yours, the best you can do is estimate it. Tom can get you close, the table here will give you a months range:- https://rdrnl.home.xs4all.nl/4UWPGPWUSA.html

Scrumps

ghiltgen
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by ghiltgen » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:04 pm

Can you post a picture of the frame crossmember under the radiator? The would confirm if it's a GPW with an engine swap. I will get to work on the est DoD and serial number based off the body tube number, with the assumption it is am MB, not a GPW.
ghiltgen
1943 MB, est DOD 4/17/1943
GPW 127386
1948 CJ2A
MVPA member 36543

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ppinotti
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Re: Serial numbers and dates

Post by ppinotti » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Paulo,

Your were very lucky, bought a Hotchkiss, but looks like you have a rebuilt GPW with MB engine, very comon practice after the war.

If this is your first Jeep, when rolling with the jeep take care with T-84 transmission, change the gears softly. And check temperature and oil pressure all the time.

I suggest you buy the books All American Wonder Vols I and II and Jeep from Emlie Becker.

When I bought my GPW, he had MB engine, MB transfer case, transmission Ford, one MB axle and front axle Ford. The body is an ACM II, but came with MB cover on tool boxes, etc.

When I started the restoration, I called him Frankstein! Then I changed the MB parts with Ford parts with some friends, but the engine still MB.

Now the jeep is rooling marvelous.

If our english speaking friends allowed me, I will write in portuguese.

Desejo-lhe muitos quilômetros rodando com seu jeep. Se este é o seu primeiro jeep, verá que prazer é dirigi-lo. Uma recomendação no verão tenha cuidado com a temperatura, Portugal é muito quente como aqui no Brasil e o motor do jeep pode esquentar muito. Evito rodar muitos quilômetros no verão.

Best Wishes - Saudações do Brasil
Paulo Pinotti
GPW 165420 DOD 12/14/1943 - Louisville Plant
Sao Paulo - Brasil

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