Oil or grease in front hubs

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
dinof
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by dinof » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:13 am

Ben Dover wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:49 am
Chassis grease is just fine.
People like Joel that have owned jeeps for decades have just used chassis grease. Seems to work doesn't it? Hint, Hint?

This thread has only proved one thing. The TM was correct, the engineers were correct. Jeep owners have proved it.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:13 am

As the jeep is steered, the two half-moon wipers on the ball keep the lubricant from leaking out. Dirt and crud/rust on the ball will create wear lines on the ball and lubricant can seep out through them. as the miles go by, the action of the wipers wears on them and old age stiffness can allow for seepage.

So, its not just the DESIGN of the interior that determined if the standard 90 wt used elsewhere on the jeep, or a thicker 140 wt or, the standard grease used elsewhere would be used, the grease probably had been used prior to the jeep and was something that Spicer came up with. I have no documentation to support that, but the mfgers suggestions for things like lubricants should and could have been the motivating force here.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 am

You will find that Spicer, the designer and manufacture of these Jeep axles also specified the lubrication and maintenance criteria. Am sure that Holabird and Aberdeen put the torture tests to these from pre WWII thru the M-38A1 Years. Ford , GM and IH used the same wiper seals shims and bearings design on their 50's-60's light trucks. The designwas quite successful when serviced to Spicer Spec. Spicer also had manuals for their axle assys. They are just fine when serviced by the book.
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Wolfman
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Wolfman » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:50 am

The original wiper seals were cork with metal plates on top. The new wipers are still two pieces but rubber lip design. Much better.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:59 am

Remember to mask off the balls when you prime/paint the axle. Also inspect both balls for nicks and damage and use emery paper to remove any HIGH spots that might damage the wipers.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)


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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Ben Dover » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 am

There are other style w WWII Wipers that were installed in WWII Jeeps, there were Felt.. Cork, and Rubber. The Rubber had the wavy steel pressure springs in the Pot Metal Retainer halves.

I still have a box of early felts as sovenir keepsakes from my early Jeep days. The felts are corrugated on the portion that goes inthe retainer halves.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by northcoastsailor » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:36 am

Is the sodium grease recommended because of the yellow metals in the knuckle and spindle? Wondering if a polyurea thickened grease would be a suitable alternative.

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us ... se-ep.html
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by dpcd67 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:38 pm

I routinely paint the knuckle balls; it especially helps when they have any pitting; giving a new smooth surface for the seals to ride on. And they won't rust.
And I use modern moly wheel bearing grease on Bendix, Rzeppa, and Tracta joints.
Works perfectly. Don't waste grease packing your knuckle full; that accomplishes nothing. Grease is not going to magically work it's way back into the U joints.
And if you use oil, you will soon see what bad things happen.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by irakli » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:27 am

Just to recap some of said above or other threads and some conclusions made. Many ideas were controversial; So, I chose opinions shared by the majority users or jeep experts:

1. Spinning velocity is not high in the CV joints so any grease hand packed in the joints will not be squeezed out.

2. The Grease is hand packed in knuckle pin bearings during service intervals and not greased by the grease located in knuckles. This is true especially with regard to upper pin.

3. The grease located in knuckles is mainly intended to grease knuckle balls. (conclusion from No1 and 2)

4. WWII Manuals indicate that proper viscosity grease for knuckles is #1 for summer and #0 for winter. If they coincide with NGLI 1 and 0 ratings is unknown. Probably NGLI 0 have same viscosity as "Jeep pudding".

5. Manuals indicate that chases grease shall be used. Majority of modern greases have better characteristics than "chases grease" which is out of production by some of main brands.

6. 3 tubes of 400gr grease is sufficient for both knuckles.

7. Putting oil in the knuckles (even 140 grade) as indicated by the late manuals will cause oil leaks

I have used 2 tubes of quite expensive NGLI 1 Moly grease in the knuckles (45$ cost with shipping) and hand packed NGLI2 grease in upper and lower pin bearings. Now I think that using small amount of moly grease in CV joint (I have Rzeppa) and filling knuckle with NGLI 1 or 0 cheap EP grease (mobile EP1 costs 7$) should have been just fine.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Ben Dover » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:37 am

Irakii has done his homework, I am impressed. His Jeep is in good hands.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by dpcd67 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:20 am

Nice summary up to the point about "filling the knuckle". That accomplishes nothing but wastes grease. As already stated, the U joints are not lubricated by all that grease just sitting in the knuckle. And neither are the king pin bearings.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Ben Dover » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:20 am

"Read the manual". It says to refill or repackthe steerig knuckle to the level of the filler Plug. That level is about the 1/2 full level.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by dpcd67 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 am

I know; later it also says to fill it with gear oil. What does filling it up half full of grease actually accomplish? I recognized very early on that is was doing nothing and I never do it on Jeeps or Dodges. That grease just sits in there, and as you know, it does not migrate into the U joints or the king pin bearings.
"The U joint turns too slow to fling lubricant." Your words.
It is another TM mistake; they aren't perfect.
Yes my U joints stay lubricated.
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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:59 am

In an effort to go with the "If it works, don't fix it" rule...

The TM- 9 803 and every OTHER Willys or Ford Lube Chart calls for the same type lubricants....CG = Chassis Grease. However, this is not to be confused with the differentials which as the second photo shows, use GO = Gear Oil.

Chassis Grease - hubs.jpg
Chassis Grease - hubs.jpg (206.5 KiB) Viewed 38 times
Chassis Grease - CG.jpg
Chassis Grease - CG.jpg (90.65 KiB) Viewed 38 times
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: Oil or grease in front hubs

Post by Ben Dover » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:07 am

I do it, "just because", and that's the way it is meant to be. The procedure does not change with the era our Jeeps are from, the lubes do tho. I prefer GAA as it is good stuff, the Army uses it and I have a few 5 Gallon pails of it.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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