Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by irakli » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:56 pm

Thunderbird712 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:58 am
There is no questioning where that strap went. I’m trying to figure out where Strap #7 attaches to since it was lengthen to eliminate that earlier strap on Suppression II jeeps. If it were to go to either one of the holes that the earlier strap went to why would the new strap be designed with a 5/16 hole?
You may find answer to that question on this link, as indicated by Darcy earlier:
http://mvsparesblog.com/
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Ralph » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:50 am

Looks like it falls right in place in Darcy's picture.5/16 hole at the forward end...does not appear long enough to reach the front engine plate as well.The bolts at the insulator/motor mounts are NF thread-there are other earth/bonds which are fastened in that size.
If Type 2 was suppose to be an improvement,it makes sense as it seems like a more direct path to the frame.I'm convinced...
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:00 am

My initial thought was obviously wrong, and I've edited my replies for the sake of confusion.

Are there any more examples besides the photo in Darcy's blog?
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 am

Ralph

The reproductions are the same length as my original and can reach the front engine plate. That is why I think its been placed there erroneously . In the SNL the description is carried over from the first Bond Strap #7 which only states two attachment points. Nothing for the third. When someone buys the reproductions it has a 3/8 hole. I was lucky to have all the original bond straps still in place. I only noticed the difference when I was comparing each original strap to the reproduction. Your correct in that it does make more sense to go directly to the motor mount. Plus that is the only 5/16 bolt in reach of that end.

Farrell,

I have not found another picture like Darcy's yet. I received information from Tom Wolboldt that a numbers matching July 45 GPW had it under the top of the motor mount bracket at the rear motor mount bolt. I am still looking for more evidence.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:12 am

Here is a picture of the Bond strap attached to the motor mount bolt on a numbers matching July 45 GPW. Its below the motor mount bracket where the MB picture provided by Darcy shows it on the motor mount itself. Picture was provided by Tom Wolboldt.

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by artificer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:42 am

I think it might be ok to say going to the front plate is wrong.
It not only OK to say, but is 100% correct & no more evidence is needed.

Total understanding of grounding or earthing is the only important consideration in this & other ground situations.
Connecting this braided strap to the engine plate does not complete the ground circuit.

The engine mounts are called insulators for good reason they insulate the frame & engine not only for vibration etc. but also will stop electrical circuit flow.

The strap is meant to ensure the engine & it's major electrical components are grounded to the vehicle frame by a substantial strap/ground. This is accomplished by locating the end of the braided strap on the frame side of the engine mount. Then the frame is securely grounded by the earth lead to the battery. Voila....a completed ground circuit capable of carrying sufficient current.

Connecting the strap in question's end to any engine location & not the frame will contribute to hard/laboured starter operation. Something we hear of so often on G503 6V systems.

As an aside I recommend a small modification to the ground circuit to alleviate any issues here, by having 'a looped' good heavy ground across from a frame side engine mount bolt to the engine side of the engine mounting stud thus eliminating the insulator issue.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:40 am

John thank you for the response. Your points make it very clear that it doesn't make sense to have it going back to the engine.

Just one more thing on this. I received the Willys factory drawing from Joe Friday. As expected it matches the Ford drawing. The bolt hole is for a 5/16 bolt and the drawing description states Engine Support Bracket. Now is it suppose to be on top on the motor mount (Willys picture up thread) or below inside the support bracket(GPW picture up thread). My 45 MB's original strap was clearly over sprayed (picture up thread). You can clearly see the outline of the washer. Whether the paint on it is from the factory or a repaint( jeep had no other OD on it), to me the only location that would allow that much paint is up top on the motor mount. Maybe it was a GPW vs. MB thing. If anyone finds the bond strap in that location I would love to see a picture of it.


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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by artificer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:17 pm

The cable must not go to the top of the engine mount.
That is effectively connecting to the engine plate & is not a GROUND.
It needs to be connected to the frame & the bottom engine mount bolt is a frame GROUND.

Anywhere connected to the frame is a GROUND when the battery's GROUND lead is connected up on or near the crossmember [to a welded stud] from memory.

The diagram explains in the description that the strap goes generator/starter/engine support bracket [on the frame]. Also the picture of the guy in the suit on page 1 shows 2 separate straps one from the starter to generator then one from the engine to the engine mount FRAME bracket.

From memory the strap is not attached to the engine mount per se but there was a separate bolt that went through the bottom of the engine mount bracket & it was easy to access.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by irakli » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:35 am

As I have removed the engine, I gave clear view on the engine support brackets. On the right bracket there are 2 holes which 5/16 bolt size undernith. I attached #7 ground strap to the rear hole, which was closests. I could not comment if there is enogh lenth to attach it to the central hole as I have not tried it.

On the left (driver's) side there is only the central hole and Paolo's draiwng was pointing to attached the strap to it. See photo.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:54 am

Irakli,

Atleast on my 45MB those two holes are not meant for a 5/16 bolt. The one in the center of the support bracket is for a 3/8 bolt. This hole was not used on Suppression II jeeps. That hole was utilized for the earlier Suppression I Bond Strap 11 that went from the front engine plate down to that location. Similar to the strap that is on the drivers side. I believe that is your first picture.

The hole closer to the edge of the support bracket(toward the rear of the jeep) is for a 1/4 bolt. That hole is used for the splash shield. The shield also uses the bolt that you can see on the frame below the wiring. I assume you have the splash for your jeep?

TJ
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1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by irakli » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:18 pm

TJ, you are correct, my mistake: the rear hole on the left side bracket is for the splash sheild. I used the center hole to fix #7 bond strap, like on the drivers side. As I understood I have to attach it to the engine mount bolt instead.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by irakli » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:41 am

Back to this subject: below is the drawing from Paolo which was included with II type Suppression strap kit and it shows attachment of the strap to the front engine plate. It differs from common understanding that the strap is connected to the bottom engine mount bolt. I would be interesting to hear about Paolo’s sources.
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by adam8888d » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:36 am

Hi all,
have just come across this post. hope this picture helps.
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ford GPW
Y.O.M 1943
DOD 5/29/43
FRAME 119158
H.N 20382716 ish

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:28 am

That’s actually of the Suppression I setup. Bond Strap #7 wasn’t used until the Suppression II setup was introduced.
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
MVPA# 37298

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