red 80 tag on jerry can

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Mark Tombleson
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:18 pm

Here is information on Bob Notman's site.

http://www.42fordgpw.com/gastags.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

The tags will also have distinctive colors far easier daylight identification, like this:

Red=80-octane gasoline.
0range=72-octane gasoline.
Black=Diesel fuel.
Yellow=OE 10 HD.
Gray=OE 3O HD or kerosene
(the shape of the tag Ii different).
Maroon=0E 50 HD.
Light blue=GO 80.
White=GO 90.

I seem to remember an article in AM showing we used the German can as a guide in making the US cans, with some obvious changes. Looking at those German tags that appear to be dated 1940 and 1941 I would guess we used that idea also. The US tags started out with the clip and after the can was modified changed to the three tab.

I looked at a lot of Pacific Theater photos and don't see any evidence the USMC used the octane tags. A lot of the Conco cans were used for water as it is pretty hard to use much gas in a vehicle on an island of 8 square miles.
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:18 am

Mark Tombleson wrote: The US tags started out with the clip and after the can was modified changed to the three tab.

.
Mark, surviving examples of original three tab tags, in not negligible numbers BTW,show how this was used both on British and U.S. made cans.
Is there evidence, somewhere/anywhere, that it is the Americans and not the British who evolved the tag?
For the sake of knowledge, since for our purposes what we already know is arguably already enough.

Would the following be an acceptable recap?

The three eared tag was a depot thing,possibly copied from the germans just as the cans themselves, used by the allied and so far seen only on the ETO pictures,not very likely to find its way on vehicle mounted jerrycans?

The only grade of gas supplied was 80 OCTANE,and vehicles requiring a lower minimum grade did not benefit of any power increase by using the 80 octane,honor graduates notwithstanding.

The letter A, to my knowledge, does not appear on three tabbed 80 tags.
Would it be a an acceptable hypothesis that by the time the three tab 80 tag was introduced, all gas was by default of the A kind, and only B and C would need to be noted?
Luca

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by gerrykan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:25 am

Regarding Germany, England, America, and 3-earred tags:
Germany had the first 3-earred tag.
England copied the German can and the German tag.
The USA copied the English tag around 1943.

The tagging of petroleum products probably goes back to the pre-war petroleum industry.
In which Country it may have originated, I have no idea.
Roy

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by tipdog » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:01 am

Mark's link ties in with the U.S. Army QM history links I posted. For Overlord, at least, the QM fuel companies were trained to refuel in the dark without lights.

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:32 am

tipdog wrote:Mark's link ties in with the U.S. Army QM history links I posted. For Overlord, at least, the QM fuel companies were trained to refuel in the dark without lights.
Very true! I have read many interesting facts on the site you kindly linked.

The relief stamping on the tags (any of them) , jokingly mentioned as Braille in that old ARMY MOTORS article, perfectly fits with operations in the dark.
Noteworthy, the fact that the tags were not yet of the three tab kind.

I think that Gerrykan's sequence is quite trustworthy.
Luca

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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:37 am

One cannot change history, the proof that the US Army attached Red 80 Octane tags to the 5 gallon gasoline can is evident.
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Re: bandwaste.

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:02 am

Ben Dover wrote:One cannot change history, the proof that the US Army attached Red 80 Octane tags to the 5 gallon gasoline can is evident.
Have you ever read anyone confute such an evident truth?
What is the use of wasting bandwidth just to repeat something that is well known by all?
If nothing else, that picture has been around for enough time.
The original poster on this old thread asked about the tag, and Al's anwer was already fairly exhaustive at the time.
Gerrykan, if you do not accept what Chuck Lutz had posted, has posted the sequence of the three tab red tag.

Have you any solid, documented reason to confute that, or are you once more merely upping your post count?

What about that Mogas purpose being "to make vehicles go like hell" pearl?
Could we agree on a polite enough label for such a load?
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by gerrykan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:10 pm

REG wrote: what does the stencil actually say, please?
This won't give you exactly what it says, but:

Image
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by bombtech » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:50 am

To reply to the post of; wjohn 30 OCT 12, I offer the following observation, if your question is in general terms of jerry cans and not specifically WWII only.

I have checked your comment and I cant find anyone else, or any other source that refers to Gasoline used in the Armed Forces as 'Combat Gas'. Could you please provide a source for your statement. Introducing a Term without a reference, further dilutes the post of facts.

I have in my possession a British can that I bought at War and Peace some years back. The can is stamped; W^D 1950 PSC (letters only not the triangle logo version) all on the left side on a flat green standard post war UK/Euro pattern can. Attached to the handle is a tin tag (plate, medallion, clip, marker, label, identifier, etc not sure what the correct military term might be) painted base colour red with the following embossed letters in black paint: COMBAT GAS F-46 I feel that the tag is original to the can both in terms of time period and country of origin.
I would be glad to post a picture if I could figure out how to reduce my 1.2G pics to the requisite 256KiB, computers are not my thing either. As always I have lots of pieces of this fascinating subject, I often refer to as the great jerry can puzzle. I hope this is helpful and adds a piece to your data base. Cheers,
Rick
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:21 am

Rick, that confirms what Roy posted: combat gas is a term apparently used only post war, unless anyone can come up with some evidence of its use in war time already.
One could agree on the term combat gas sounding nice, but that alone does not justify the concept that it might have been used in war time already.
It does definitely not mean that such a fuel, whenever used, might make a military vehicle "go like hell ".
It is a known fact that an higher than required octane grade on a given engine does not have any influence on its power output, and any statement on the contrary deserves the appropriate label, given we can agree on a polite one.

On that book by Dentzer and Becker there is a picture of a can stenciled with "AUTO-COMBAT" but it is clearly the product of some unknown
restorer"...
Luca

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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
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43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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Re: stenciled information on U.S. jerry cans

Post by lucakiki » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:46 am

REG wrote:
Luca, what does the stencil actually say, please?

I've one can with octane tag and wouldn't mind stencilling it up.
Reg, Here is a picture of my stenciled can.

Image
Please note: the stenciling was done by myself using a stencil that a guy , decades ago, had made using an original as a pattern.
I had seen the original myself.
The same stencil has been used by more than a couple of jerrycan collectors in my area, at times changing the year.
As you can see, there is no mention of MOGAS nor COMBAT GAS, which are more of a postwar thing.

I also have a picture of the stenciling on a jerrycan containing Diesel fuel. It is original, and Roy (gerrykan) might have memory of it, since he was so kind to give me the lead.It came from France.Look!

Image

7-0-2D
DIESEL FUEL
Luca

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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:42 pm

The fuel being stockpiled for the D-Day Invasion was 80 Octane.
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Re: stenciled information on U.S. jerry cans

Post by gerrykan » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:22 am

lucakiki wrote:I also have a picture of the stenciling on a jerrycan containing Diesel fuel.
Luca,
Thanks for the picture. I had forgotten about that can. :)
Roy

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:22 am

Roy, the non original stenciled information on the can I showed was applied with a stencil a guy made years ago copying an original.
It was very faded, so some of the letters or numbers might have been wrongly copied,but the general layout is defintely correct.
No mention whatsoever of MOGAS or Combat Gas.

Not any warning on special effects ot the fuel if used in a vehicle requiring a lower grade minimum octane... :wink:
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:13 am

The WWII MOGAS cans did not use the post WWII era 9130 "TARES" System FSN's as copied and stenciled on the repainted can.The "TARES" System was introduced in the mid 50's and did not exist during WWII.
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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